AKP健食天

女性 激素 Deborah Matthew

**女性激素失衡:症状、检测与应对**

许多女性都经历过身体不适:疲倦、睡眠障碍、腹胀、脑雾、易怒和焦虑等等。这些症状常常被忽视,或被简单归类为“压力大”或“生活方式问题”。但事实上,它们很可能与荷尔蒙失衡有关。尤其当这些症状在月经前加剧,月经后缓解时,更应引起重视。

并非所有女性都需要进行荷尔蒙检测。如果你的身体状况良好,感觉精力充沛,那么定期检测可能并非必要。然而,一旦出现持续性的不适,例如持续疲劳、情绪波动剧烈、睡眠质量下降等,就应该考虑进行荷尔蒙检测。

关键荷尔蒙及症状:

  • 雌激素和孕激素: 它们在月经周期中波动,共同调节月经周期。雌激素过高可能导致月经量过多、经期频繁、严重的经前综合征(PMS)症状,例如乳房胀痛和严重的水肿。孕激素过低则可能导致月经周期不规律(周期缩短)、焦虑、易怒、失眠和夜间盗汗。孕激素是重要的“镇静”荷尔蒙,对睡眠、情绪稳定至关重要。
  • 睾酮: 即使对女性来说,睾酮也扮演着重要角色。睾酮水平低可能导致性欲减退、阴道干燥、肌肉张力下降以及缺乏动力感。
  • 皮质醇(压力荷尔蒙): 长期处于高水平的皮质醇会扰乱其他荷尔蒙的平衡,加剧各种症状。
  • 甲状腺激素: 甲状腺激素调节新陈代谢、能量水平和性欲。甲状腺功能异常会影响其他荷尔蒙的运作,导致疲劳、体重变化、便秘、怕冷等症状。更重要的是,雌激素优势(雌激素水平相对较高,而孕激素水平较低)会进一步干扰甲状腺功能。

这些荷尔蒙之间相互作用,一个荷尔蒙失衡会影响其他荷尔蒙的平衡,形成恶性循环。因此,单纯依靠抗抑郁药、镇静剂或避孕药来缓解症状,往往治标不治本。

荷尔蒙检测:时机与方法

在30多岁进行基线荷尔蒙检测并非强制性要求,但可以作为日后参考。然而,由于医学教育中对荷尔蒙平衡的重视程度不足,许多医生对荷尔蒙检测和治疗缺乏足够的了解,甚至会拒绝患者的检测请求。

目前,有多种荷尔蒙检测方法:血液检测、唾液检测和尿液检测(例如Dutch test)。每种方法都有其优缺点,没有绝对的“最佳”方法。选择医生熟悉的方法至关重要,这能确保结果的准确解读和有效的后续治疗方案。

血液检测的时机至关重要: 荷尔蒙水平在月经周期中波动。对于月经周期规律的女性,理想的检测时间是月经前一周左右。但对于月经不规律或已绝经的女性,检测时机和结果解读则更为复杂。此外,服用避孕药会严重干扰雌激素和孕激素的检测结果。

如果检测结果显示“正常”,但你仍然感觉不适,请不要灰心。 这可能意味着医生没有找到问题的根源,或者没有正确解读检测结果。你需要寻求其他医生的帮助,寻找更专业的荷尔蒙专家。

唾液检测尤其适合年轻女性,可以更有效地评估雌激素和孕激素的平衡,以及皮质醇的昼夜节律。尿液检测则能提供关于荷尔蒙代谢途径的信息,对于评估某些特定风险(例如乳腺癌)的女性非常有帮助。

与医生沟通: 成为你自身健康的倡导者。积极主动地与医生沟通你的症状和担忧,并寻求更全面的检测和治疗方案。如果你的医生不了解荷尔蒙平衡,或者不愿意进行相关检测,请不要放弃,继续寻找其他能够提供帮助的专业人士。

最终,理解自身的荷尔蒙状况,并掌握自我保健的方法,比单纯依靠药物治疗更为重要。 这需要你积极学习,并与专业的医疗人员合作,才能最终获得健康和平衡。

**Understanding Hormone Testing and Replacement for Women with Dr. Deborah Matthew**

Edit:2025.04.30

《Wellness Mama Podcast》中Katie与Dr. Deb Matthew(被称为“快乐激素专家”)访谈 主题为女性激素的平衡、测试方法、症状识别及相关争议。访谈深入探讨了雌激素、孕酮、睾酮、皮质醇和甲状腺激素的相互作用,以及测试的适用时机和注意事项。复述力求清晰、准确、忠于原文,按逻辑结构组织,覆盖视频所有主要内容。


开场与背景介绍(00:00 - 00:50)

主持人Katie的开场

  • Katie欢迎听众收听《Wellness Mama Podcast》,介绍嘉宾Dr. Deb Matthew,主题为深入探讨女性激素。
  • 提及此前与Dr. Deb的访谈(已链接至节目备注),聚焦女性睾酮及相关误解,此集将扩展至其他激素。
  • 本集核心:
    • 探讨雌激素、孕酮、睾酮、皮质醇和甲状腺激素的相互作用。
    • 讨论激素测试的争议、适用时机及如何与医生沟通。
  • Dr. Deb被誉为“快乐激素专家”,其专业知识将帮助听众理解激素对健康的影响。

Dr. Deb的回应

  • 感谢Katie的邀请,表达对分享激素知识的热情。

何时考虑激素测试(00:50 - 02:38)

Katie的问题

  • 女性何时需要关注激素问题或考虑测试?有哪些迹象提示需要测试?

Dr. Deb的回答

  • 症状驱动测试
    • 许多女性感到不适,常见症状包括:
      • 疲劳、睡眠障碍、腹胀、脑雾、易怒、焦虑等。
    • 这些症状可能与生活压力或环境有关,但周期性变化是激素问题的关键线索:
      • 经前综合征(PMS):如果症状在月经前加重(如情绪波动、家人感到“如履薄冰”),月经后改善(如精力充沛、积极行动),提示激素失衡。
  • 测试的必要性
    • 如果女性感觉良好,无需常规测试建立“基线”,因激素水平随月经周期波动,测试复杂且非必要。
    • 当健康开始“偏离轨道”(如症状明显影响生活质量)时,测试是了解激素状态的重要工具。
  • 测试目标
    • 确定症状是否由激素失衡引起,帮助制定针对性干预措施。

关键激素及其作用(02:38 - 07:38)

Dr. Deb的讲解

  • 雌激素(Estrogen)
    • 促使子宫内膜增厚,为月经做准备。
    • 正常表现:规律月经、适量经血提示雌激素水平可能正常。
    • 过高表现(雌激素优势):
      • 月经量过多、周期缩短(少于28天)、严重PMS(如水肿、体重增加5-10磅、乳房胀痛)。
  • 孕酮(Progesterone)
    • 控制子宫内膜增厚,防止月经量过多,调节周期。
    • 低孕酮常见于35岁以上女性,症状包括:
      • 周期不规律(周期缩短至25、23或21天)。
      • 焦虑、易怒(对小事过激反应,事后自责)、夜间醒来、经前夜间盗汗。
      • 初期症状集中于经前一周,严重时可能仅剩月经后一周感觉良好,甚至持续不适。
    • 孕酮被称为“平静激素”,对睡眠、情绪稳定和预防夜间盗汗至关重要。
  • 睾酮(Testosterone)
    • 女性也需要睾酮,低睾酮导致:
      • 性欲低下、阴道干涩、肌肉张力下降、缺乏动力、情绪低落。
    • 可能因围绝经期或其他因素引发。
  • 皮质醇(Cortisol)
    • 压力激素,短期升高帮助应对压力,长期高水平导致“战斗或逃跑”状态,引发不适。
    • 作为调控激素,影响其他激素平衡,加剧PMS、性欲低下等症状。
  • 甲状腺激素(Thyroid Hormones)
    • 调控代谢率,影响能量、皮肤/头发/指甲生长、认知功能和性欲。
    • 低甲状腺功能导致疲劳、体重增加、便秘、畏寒。
  • 激素间的相互作用
    • 激素如“复杂挂毯”,彼此影响:
      • 高皮质醇抑制孕酮(加重PMS)、睾酮(降低性欲)和甲状腺功能(引发疲劳等)。
      • 雌激素优势(雌激素过高、孕酮不足)干扰甲状腺功能,导致月经问题、易怒、失眠。
    • 单一激素异常可能引发连锁反应,多个激素轻微失衡(仍在正常范围)也可能导致明显不适。
  • 医疗误区
    • 女性描述症状(如疲劳、无动力)常被误诊为抑郁,处方抗抑郁药、抗焦虑药、助眠药或避孕药,而未解决根本的激素失衡。

基线测试的意义(07:38 - 09:36)

Katie的问题

  • 30岁左右的女性是否应做基线测试,以记录感觉良好时的激素水平,作为未来参考?这样做是否有风险?

Dr. Deb的回答

  • 基线测试非必需
    • 不建议所有30岁女性常规测试,因激素水平每日波动,单次测试仅提供有限信息。
    • 若无症状,测试可能“打开潘多拉盒子”,增加不必要的焦虑。
  • 基线测试的价值
    • 若女性希望了解自身激素状态,测试是安全的,可提供参考。
    • 但需理解测试结果需结合周期阶段和症状解读,单次测试非全面反映。
  • 建议
    • 健康女性无需强制测试,出现症状时再考虑更具针对性。

激素测试的类型与注意事项(09:36 - 20:50)

Katie的问题

  • 若怀疑激素失衡,应选择哪些测试?理想范围是什么?测试过程中需注意什么?

Dr. Deb的回答

  • 医学教育的局限
    • 医学院未教授激素失衡的详细知识,Dr. Deb通过自学(如阅读Suzanne Somers的书)了解孕酮对大脑(孕酮受体最多)的影响。
    • 常规医生可能不熟悉激素测试,常见回应包括:
      • “你太年轻,不会有激素问题。”
      • “激素测试不可靠。”
      • 仅测试甲状腺刺激激素(TSH,筛查甲状腺功能)或卵泡刺激激素(FSH,评估卵巢功能)。
    • TSH和FSH仅适用于明确甲状腺疾病或卵巢衰退,漏诊许多中间状态。
  • 推荐的测试方法
    • 血液测试
      • 常规方法,适合未接受激素治疗的女性,测量自然激素水平。
      • 缺点:需在正确周期时间测试,否则结果误导。
    • 血斑测试
      • 指尖采血,滴于滤纸,寄送实验室,与血液测试类似。
    • 唾液测试
      • 适合测量雌激素、孕酮和皮质醇。
      • 优点:参考范围基于无症状女性的“健康”水平,而非广泛人群。
      • 特别适合皮质醇,因可测量昼夜节律(晨高夜低)。
    • 尿液测试(DUTCH测试)
      • 测量激素水平及代谢途径(如雌激素的代谢路径)。
      • 优点:识别代谢异常(如增加乳腺癌风险的路径),适合高乳腺癌风险或子宫肌瘤、重度月经、子宫内膜异位症的女性。
      • 缺点:绝经后雌激素极低时,代谢路径结果不准确。
  • 测试时机的关键性
    • 规律28天周期的女性
      • 最佳测试时间为月经前一周(第19-21天),此时雌激素和孕酮水平较高,反映周期后半段状态。
    • 月经不规律或无月经的女性
      • 如部分子宫切除术(保留卵巢)、子宫内膜消融术或使用避孕环(IUD)导致无月经,测试解读困难。
      • 可能需间隔两周测试两次,观察变化,结合症状评估。
    • 服用避孕药的女性
      • 避孕药含合成激素,抑制自然雌激素和孕酮,测试结果显示极低水平(正常反应),无意义。
      • 可测试其他激素(如皮质醇、甲状腺)。
  • 测试的上下文
    • 激素水平随周期波动,单次测试需结合周期阶段解读。
    • 类比血糖和血压:两者随时间变化,但通过上下文(如空腹血糖、压力状态)解读,激素测试同理。
    • 医生常因激素波动拒绝测试,认为“无意义”,但正确时机和解读可提供有价值信息。
  • 选择测试的建议
    • 每种测试(血液、血斑、唾液、尿液)有优缺点,无单一“最佳”测试。
    • 选择应基于:
      • 女性具体情况(如年龄、症状、月经状态)。
      • 医生的专长和熟悉程度(医生擅长的测试更易准确解读)。
    • 女性需自我倡导,了解测试选项,与医生讨论最适合的方案。

应对“正常”结果或医生不支持测试(20:50 - 24:22)

Katie的问题

  • 若测试结果“正常”但感觉不佳,或医生拒绝测试,如何应对?

Dr. Deb的回答

  • “正常”结果的误解
    • “正常”仅表示结果在参考范围内,可能非最佳状态。
    • 激素轻微失衡(高正常或低正常)可能导致症状,但常规医学未识别。
    • 若感觉不佳,提示医生可能未检测正确指标或未正确解读。
  • 医生不支持测试的原因
    • 医学院未教授激素失衡的详细管理,医生可能不了解相关知识。
    • 常规医学聚焦抗抑郁药、避孕药等对症治疗,而非激素平衡。
  • 应对策略
    • 不放弃:症状非“正常”或“心理问题”,而是未找到正确答案。
    • 寻找专业帮助
      • 寻找熟悉激素测试和平衡的医生(如功能医学或整合医学从业者)。
      • 确认医生擅长的测试类型(如唾液或尿液),以确保准确解读。
    • 自我赋能
      • 了解自身症状(如周期性变化)及可能的激素关联。
      • 记录症状日记,与医生分享,增加讨论依据。
  • Dr. Deb的理念
    • 最重要的不是开具激素替代疗法处方,而是通过病史和测试结果,帮助女性理解身体状况、原因及应对措施。
    • 赋能女性掌控健康,减少对医疗系统的依赖,恢复情绪和身体的控制感。

唾液与尿液测试的细节(24:22 - 27:49)

Dr. Deb的补充

  • 唾液测试
    • 适用人群:30多岁女性,关注雌激素和孕酮失衡。
    • 优势
      • 孕酮参考范围基于健康、无症状女性,而非广泛人群(血液测试范围较宽)。
      • 更易识别轻微失衡。
      • 适合皮质醇测试,因可测量昼夜节律:
        • 正常:晨高(助清醒)、夜低(助睡眠)。
        • 异常:晨低(需咖啡提神)、夜高(难以入睡)。
      • 可测“皮质醇觉醒反应”(醒后30分钟和60分钟的皮质醇峰值),反映正常昼夜模式。
    • 局限:仅反映激素水平,未提供代谢信息。
  • 尿液测试(DUTCH测试)
    • 优势
      • 测量激素水平及代谢路径(如雌激素代谢)。
      • 识别不健康代谢路径(如增加乳腺癌风险的路径),指导干预(如通过营养调整)。
      • 适合高乳癌风险、子宫肌瘤、重度月经或子宫内膜异位症的女性。
    • 局限
      • 绝经后雌激素极低时,代谢路径结果不可靠。
    • 个性化选择
      • 测试选择需根据症状、家族史和目标(如预防乳腺癌)定制。
      • 无单一测试适合所有情况,需与医生协作决定。

资源与总结(27:49 - 29:43)

Katie的问题

  • 听众如何进一步学习激素知识?Dr. Deb的资源在哪里?

Dr. Deb的回答

  • 实践与网站
    • 诊所:Signature Wellness(北卡罗来纳州夏洛特),网站:signaturewellness.org,提供激素相关信息。
  • 社交媒体
    • Instagram和Facebook:@Dr.DebMatthew,分享激素健康内容。
  • 书籍
    • 《This Is Not Normal: A Busy Woman’s Guide to Symptoms of Hormone Imbalances》:
      • 包含症状清单(低孕酮、高雌激素、皮质醇问题等)。
      • 提供自然平衡激素的建议。
      • 指导如何与医生沟通及寻找专业提供者。
      • 节目备注提供免费下载链接。
  • 鼓励赋能
    • 女性需自我倡导,了解测试选项,找到适合的医生。
    • 测试是工具,结合症状和专业解读可显著改善健康。

Katie的总结

  • 感谢Dr. Deb分享专业知识,强调其帮助女性的热情。
  • 鼓励听众通过节目备注链接访问Dr. Deb的资源,持续学习。
  • 个人感悟:本次访谈加深了对激素的理解,计划进一步探索。
  • 呼吁听众为播客评分或评论(iTunes),帮助更多女性受益。

补充说明

  • Dr. Deb的建议基于功能医学视角,强调个性化测试和自我倡导,可能与常规医学观点不同,建议听众结合自身情况咨询专业医生。

Edit:2025.04.30

00:00

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I'm Katie from wellnessmama.com and I am back today with Dr. Deb Matthew to dive deeper on the topic of hormones. If you missed our first episode together, we talked about testosterone and a lot of the myths and misconceptions around this, especially for women. And in this episode, she's back to dive deep into other hormones and how they relate and especially a lot of the controversy surrounding hormone testing for women and

00:26

and what to know if you decide to go that route and how to navigate those conversations with your doctor. Dr. Deb is known as the happy hormone expert, and you will see why in this episode where she explains the interplay of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, thyroid hormones, and so much more. I learned a lot, so let's jump in with Dr. Deb. Dr. Deb, welcome back. Thanks for being here again. Oh, I'm so glad to be here.

00:50

Well, we had an awesome conversation recently about testosterone for women especially, and I'll make sure that one is linked in the show notes if you guys haven't heard it. I learned so much in that conversation. And in this conversation, I would love to expand and dive into the other hormones we need to know about and be aware of, understanding when testing is appropriate and what to look for, and also if or when there's a time for replacement. I guess to start, it's an easy jumping in point for the conversation is maybe some broad knowledge on

01:18

When do we need to start to be aware of that or consider testing and or are there things that point to it might be a good idea to get tested? Yeah. Well, I think that a lot of women don't feel good and we've got our list. We're tired. We're not sleeping. We're bloated. We've got brain fog. We're irritable, you know, anxious. Like we've got a laundry list of symptoms and sometimes it can be really difficult to know, is it my hormones? Like, you know, maybe it's just me. Maybe it's my circumstances. Maybe it's my stress. And

01:46

One of the clues that your symptoms really could be hormonally related is if it's sickly, like if it gets worse going into your period, if your family feels like hormone hostages and they have to walk on eggshells because they're not too sure if mom is going to blow, you know, in that week before a period. And then if you feel better after your period and that's the good week, that week after your period, you're chopping the broccoli, you're cleaning out your closets, you're going to the gym.

02:10

If you see that change, that's a really important clue that hormones could be playing a role in what you're doing. But sometimes it's confusing, isn't it? Like we're just not really sure. And so if you're not feeling good, that's a really good time to think about having your hormones tested. I sometimes get asked, like, should every woman get her hormones tested just to know for the baseline? And I'm not sure that that's really necessary for everybody. If you're healthy and well, our hormones fluctuate over the month. It's actually constant.

02:38

complicated to measure hormones. It's not so straightforward. So I'm not sure that every woman needs to have her baseline tested if she's doing well and feeling healthy. But once things are starting to go downhill or, you know, go off the rails a little bit, that would be a really important time to have things looked at. And some of the really important hormones that we want to talk about are estrogen and progesterone, which of course are the ones that go up and down over the menstrual cycle. And estrogen is the one that makes our uterine lining thicken and grow so that

03:08

There's a period at the end of the month when we shut our lining. So if you're still having a regular period and if your periods are sort of normal flow, that's sort of a clue that probably your estrogen is okay. If you're having really heavy periods, if your periods are coming back

03:23

And more frequently, if you have a lot of PMS symptoms that are physical, like a lot of fluid retention, you're gaining like five or 10 pounds before your period. And then after your period, you shed all of that water weight. Those can be, and it's breast tenderness. Those can be symptoms that you have too much estrogen.

03:40

But a really common thing that we see, especially in women over 35, is lower progesterone. And progesterone is the one that tells our uterine lining to stop growing so that it's not so thick. And therefore, it keeps our periods from becoming too heavy. It helps to regulate our cycles. So if your cycles have started to become irregular, especially if they're coming closer together, you know, instead of 28 days, now they're 25 or 23 or 21.

04:06

If you're having more anxiety or irritability, like you're just losing it with your kids and you find yourself shrinking at them over the silliest little things and then you feel like the worst mom ever. If you are waking up in the middle of the night, these can all be signs of low progesterone and anxiety.

04:26

commonly in the beginning, it starts off that it's the week before your period, but it can kind of get more than that. And sometimes women end up, they only have one good week a month. And then eventually it just kind of, you don't, you lose that sickly. You just feel that way all the time. Some in some cases.

04:41

So progesterone is the calming hormone, really important for sleep, really important for anxiety, really important to keep your mood calm and helps to prevent the night sweats. A lot of women don't notice that their sleeplessness and night sweats get worse that week before your period. So if you're having night sweats and you don't always sleep through the night and you haven't made that connection, sort of pay attention because you'll find that really commonly it's that week before your period. So we want to look at estrogen and progesterone.

05:05

We want to look at testosterone, which that's what we talked about last time. It's really important for women too. And if our testosterone goes down, there can be other reasons besides just sort of perimenopause, but it can cause low libido, vaginal dryness, loss of muscle tone, muscle mass. But also it just makes us feel sort of flat and unmotivated and just sort of ho-hum. And we just don't feel like ourselves.

05:31

Another one that's really important is cortisol, which is our stress hormone. And cortisol goes up to help us cope with stress, which is great in the short term. But when we have chronic stress in our lives, it can end up being chronically elevated. And then we're just sort of always in that fight or flight response. We don't feel good. And really importantly, cortisol is a regulating hormone. So it regulates all the other hormones and it just makes all the other potential hormone symptoms that much worse.

06:01

And the thyroid is all tied into this too because thyroid sets our metabolic rate. It gives us energy. It makes our skin, hair, and nails grow, keeps our hair sharp, our brain sharp. It's also really important for libido. So if you have no libido, it could be low testosterone. It could be a problem with cortisol. And it could be that your thyroid is the problem. And you can have all of those at the same time because they're tied together.

06:25

If you have a cortisol problem, it shuts down the other hormones. So you don't make as much progesterone and you have more PMS. It shuts down testosterone so you don't feel like doing things and you have no libido and it interferes with how your thyroid works. So now you're tired and gaining weight and you're constipated and you're cold. So there's a lot of interconnection. Another really important interconnection is if you have what we call estrogen dominance, which means that you're still producing estrogen, maybe even you've got too much estrogen in your system.

06:55

and there's not enough progesterone to balance the estrogen out, when that happens, that estrogen dominance pattern, that goes along with the heavier periods, more PMS, anxiety, irritability. When that happens, it also interferes with how your thyroid functions. And so now if your thyroid's not doing a great job, thyroid can cause menstrual problems and irritability and sleeplessness. And so they just kind of all compound together.

07:22

And so I think it's important to think about our hormones as this complex tapestry where each hormone is important for how the other hormone works. And if one of them is out of whack, the other ones start to go out of whack too. And so it's important for us to look at all of them together because at the end of the day, it's

07:38

often that we don't find like one hormone is completely off the deep end. What we often find is that each hormone is just a little bit out of kilter. So they all might even technically be in the normal range, but if one of them is kind of high normal and the other one is kind of low normal, you don't feel right. And when you don't feel right and you go to your doctor and you try to put it into words,

08:02

I'm tired all the time. I have no motivation. I don't feel like doing things. This doesn't feel like me. This is not normal. I don't feel like myself. That's got Prozac written all over it, right? I mean, the only thing that we were really trained in medical school to do if you don't feel good is to give you antidepressants, anxiety pills, sleeping pills. If your periods are not going great, we give you birth control pills. But the problem is that those are not really treating the real problem. And if we can get your hormones back in balance, you can feel so much better.

08:32

That makes sense. And it makes sense to pay attention to not just like the normal lab ranges like we talked about in the last episode, but to know how they interact together and kind of the optimal versus just normal, which I hate that word in a medical context. I'm also curious, is there any value to women, say, like in our early 30s, getting a baseline test, not as a way to like, if there's, you know…

08:52

maybe she feels great. Maybe she's not concerned, but to get a baseline to know for later, like these were ranges where I did feel really good to maybe that's kind of my body's natural point. Or is that sort of opening a Pandora's box that we don't need yet at that age? You know, I guess I would say I don't tell all like women, okay, you've hit age 30, go get your baseline hormone levels down. So I don't think everybody needs to have their hormone levels down. I think it's

09:14

I think it's nice information. I mean, I think it's great for anybody who would like to have it done to have it done just to know. I think that's totally fine. But I don't think we need to tell all women that they really need to because our hormones are cycling. They're changing a lot day to day. So a one-time hormone test is only a piece of information. It's not the be-all and end-all of how your body's hormones are functioning.

09:36

That makes sense. Okay. And I love that you also brought thyroid into this because I think that's obviously an issue for a lot of women and that there's a lot of kind of misinformation or just not super great direction related to thyroid testing as well. I guess if a woman is like wondering if she has issues or her hormones are out of balance, what do you recommend at that point as far as what testing to look for? What kind of ranges are we wanting to be in and anything to know going into that process?

10:02

So this is actually a really challenging topic to talk about because in medical school, we are not taught about any of this stuff that we're talking about. In fact, I would tell you that I learned first about how progesterone is the one that's calming and it creates the irritability and anxiety and sleeplessness because I read a book written by Suzanne Somers. You remember like the Thighmaster Lady. And I was reading about the women in the book and they had all the symptoms just like I did. And

10:31

And then I read about how much better they felt when they got their hormones balanced. And that completely blew my mind because there was nothing about that in medical school. I just knew that progesterone was one of the things, inverse control pills that had to do with your uterine lining. I had no idea that the part of our body that had the most progesterone receptors is in our brain.

10:50

So when you go to see your regular, you know, family doctor, your gynecologist, if you march in the door and say, hey, heard this podcast, I'd love to get my hormone levels tested. That's just not what they do. And so a lot of women are told we don't do that. You're too young to have a hormone problem. Hormone testing is not valid. Like they just really get shut down.

11:14

If your doctor is willing to measure something for you, typically what they'll measure is a TSH, thyroid stimulating hormone. That's the screening test for thyroid. If you're full-blown hypothyroid or hyperthyroid, it'll be abnormal, but there's so much in between there that gets missed on the screening test. Sometimes they'll measure a test for you called FSH, follicle stimulating hormone. And this is a test that kind of tells us if your ovaries are still going strong or not.

11:42

or if they're starting to peter out. That can be important if you're interested in fertility, because we want your FSH level to be low, meaning strong ovaries, if you're wanting to start a family. But even if it's starting to go up, it doesn't really tell you what your hormone levels are. It just tells you that your ovaries are starting to tippy-toe towards perimenopause. But those are really the only two tests that doctors will even sort of commonly entertain.

12:10

What I like to do when people come in to see me and doctors who practice like me is we want to look at all of these different hormones. And we have three, four, I guess, main ways that we can test for hormones. We can do just a regular blood test like everybody's used to. There are also tests called blood spot tests where you just prick your finger and we put little drops of blood on a filter paper and then the paper gets mailed into the lab. So those are very similar.

12:37

We have saliva testing that we can do, and we have urine testing. The message that I would love to give today is that all of those tests have pros and cons. They all have validity. Each one of them has circumstances where they may be better than the other one, but there's no one right answer. And I spend a lot of time teaching other practitioners and talking, you know, lecturing about

13:03

which test is best. And the reality is there is no one right answer. So if you hear somebody talk or you hear me talk and you decide, you know, I really want test A and you go in to see your practitioner and you sort of say, I want test A and they really want to recommend test B. It doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing or that they're wrong. It's just there are different ways that we can do this.

13:27

And for each woman, we try to decide which is going to be the best test for you. And also doctors have to be good at being able to analyze the test results and understand and make sense of them and use those test results in a meaningful way to help you. And so sometimes doctors get really good at utilizing this test or really good at utilizing that test. And I think at the end of the day, you're probably best to go with whichever test your doctor decides.

13:52

or your practitioner, whoever you're working with, is the most familiar with, the most comfortable with, because then you're, you know, the one that they get the best results.

14:00

tests are only tools. But having said that, I'd love to give some information about the pros and cons of the different tests so that women know, because unfortunately, when we're talking about hormones, we all have to be our own advocates. This isn't part of standard of care medicine. You can't just, you know, walk into your doctor and get a quick prescription for something to fix this. So I think it's important to know. So blood work can be okay. It

14:26

especially if you're not on any kind of hormone therapy, we're just going in to measure what you're naturally producing, blood work can be okay. What really matters is the timing of the test because frequently if you're going to just your regular doctor, they will have you do the test when you're on your period or within the first few days of your cycle, like day one through five of your cycle.

14:50

And the reason for that is they're typically only measuring the FSH, that follicle stimulating hormone. And that one spikes way up at ovulation. That's part of what triggers ovulation. So we don't want to do it in the middle of the cycle. Otherwise, it's going to look high. But it's not perimenopause. It's just ovulation. So if you're on your period, we know you're not ovulating right now. So that's usually where they tell you to go.

15:12

But if we're measuring the rest of your hormones, that's not the right time because our hormones change over our cycle. So in the first, while you're on your period, your estrogen and progesterone levels are going to be really low. It doesn't mean that you have low hormone levels or that you're in early menopause or any of that. They're supposed to be low when you're on your period.

15:33

The week after your period, your estrogen level goes up a tiny bit, but your progesterone level is still going to be low. And then around the two-week mark, in the middle of your cycle, that's when you ovulate, estrogen is going to spike way up. And it doesn't mean that you have too much estrogen. It just means that you're ovulating.

15:52

And then once you've ovulated, your ovary is going to start to make progesterone in the little place that released the A. And so after you ovulate, now you're going to make a whole bunch of progesterone for the two weeks leading to your period. And then when it's time for your period to start, the estrogen and progesterone are going to plummet.

16:12

And that's what triggers the shedding of your lining. So if you get your blood work done at the wrong time in your cycle, you're going to get these results that are totally different. And I shouldn't say the wrong time, but depending on where you are in your cycle, we're going to get extremely different results.

16:29

So that's why we can't just look on a lab test and say, oh, your estrogen level was this or your progesterone level was that. Therefore, we know exactly what's wrong because we have to take the context into account.

16:43

This is why a lot of healthcare practitioners, a lot of doctors will refuse to measure hormone levels because in their mind, first of all, they weren't taught to do it. So it's not like a normal thing to do, but in their mind, they're thinking, well, you're here today on a random Tuesday afternoon in my office, but I can order your hormone levels today, but they're just going to be different next week. And they're going to be different the week after that. So it's meaningless. So there's no need to measure your hormone levels. Here's my take on that is

17:11

Your blood sugar changes minute by minute in the day, depending on what you ate, when you last ate. But we don't say we can't measure your blood sugar because it changes. We just put it into context. We asked you to go fasting or we do it. And, you know, when you're pregnant, you have to drink that nasty sugary stuff, right? To see if your blood pressure spikes.

17:31

We just put it into context. The same thing is true for your blood pressure. If you are all stressed out over something, like if you're late to your doctor's appointment, you're stuck in traffic and you're rushed getting there, or you're nervous because you're waiting for test results and you're kind of scared, those kinds of things are going to make your blood pressure be high. But we're not going to do that.

17:47

Or if you exercise, naturally your blood pressure goes up to help you exercise. So we know that your blood pressure is going to change minute by minute over the day depending on what's going on, but we don't say we can't measure your blood pressure because it changes. We just put it into context. So

18:03

That's how I feel about hormones is we just have to put it into context, but it is very important to make sure that you're going at the right time. So for women who have regular 28-day cycles, we have them go about a week before their period, which is roughly day 19 to 21 of a 28-day cycle. And it's roughly halfway between when you ovulate around day 14 and when your period starts around day 28.

18:26

So regardless of whether we're talking about blood testing, saliva testing, urine testing, the timing really matters.

18:33

It's really tricky, though, for women who don't have a period. Maybe they had a partial hysterectomy, so they don't have a uterus, but they still have their ovaries, but they're not having a period. So we don't know. Their ovaries are still cycling and doing what they're doing, but we don't know what's going on. Or a lot of women who get an IUD that they don't often get a period or just every once in a while they get some really small amount of spotting, but there's no regularity to it.

19:01

Or sometimes women have had an ablation, which is a treatment where we treat the lining of the uterus to sort of create scarring so that you don't bleed anymore. And then we don't know. And that's really important because the women who had to have the partial hysterectomy or had to have the ablation, often these are women who had hormone problems, which is why they were having like excessive bleeding that caused them to need those treatments in the first place. So we really do want to know what's going on with hormones because

19:29

Because the treatments can make it so you don't have to deal with the heavy bleeding, but it didn't fix, didn't do anything really to the hormone issues. So we don't know where you are in your cycle. And that makes it really difficult to interpret. It doesn't mean we can't measure your hormone levels. Sometimes I even do it two weeks apart, like we'll do it now. And then we'll do it two weeks later just to kind of see what we get because it should be very different. But that's another reason why sometimes doctors will just say, well, there's no point in measuring your hormone levels because how would we even know how to interpret them?

19:59

but we can certainly match them up with your symptoms. There's a lot that we can do, but I think it's important to know it's not so simple. And one more thing, and I'm going to take a breath, but one more is if you're on birth control pills.

20:12

If you're on birth control pills, we really can't accurately measure your estrogen and progesterone levels because what's in the pill is not real estrogen and progesterone. It is synthetic chemicals that are man-made that have never before been found in a woman's body. And what they do is they turn off your hormones and then the hormones are replaced with these synthetic chemicals.

20:35

And there's no blood test or urine test or saliva test for those chemicals in our body. So almost always what happens is if you get the tests done, it's going to look like your hormone levels are really, really low, but it doesn't mean you're in menopause or that there's a

20:50

problem, it's the expected result of the birth control pills. So if you're on birth control pills, it's just not really even worth wasting your time to get your estrogen and progesterone level tested. We can still measure the other hormones though. So it's not all is lost, but those ones won't be accurate.

21:07

That was so helpful. And I love that you gave kind of like all the caveats to know of different hormonal situations so that women can navigate this on their own. And I say often on here, at the end of the day, we have to each be our own primary health care provider in taking ownership for our health.

21:22

And it seems like the really good doctors and practitioners like you are most excited when they have a woman come in who is in that driver's seat and very invested because she's willing to do the things to help improve her health and work with you and then can benefit most from, in this case, your very specific knowledge on hormones. I'd love advice you have for women for navigating a couple specific topics. Maybe they've been through hormone testing or some kind of testing and have been told your labs are normal.

21:47

which we now understand might not mean that they're where you want them to be, but they're told their labs are normal and not to worry about it.

21:53

Or as I was, you know, like that's just part of being a woman or being a new mom or they hear those things a lot. Or if your doctor is not on board with hormone testing at all, any advice for navigating either of those situations? Yeah. And I want to come back to the urine testing and the saliva testing too. So this is so common. Like it's so common and it's not your doctor's fault. Like your doctor wants to help you, but we were not trained. They don't know what they don't know. I didn't know. I had no idea. I had all kinds of symptoms and I didn't know.

22:21

So if you're told that your labs are normal, but you feel crappy,

22:26

It doesn't mean that you're normal. It just means that your doctor didn't look in the right place or didn't know how to interpret your labs in a way that can help you. And it doesn't mean that that's the end for you. It doesn't mean that there's no hope. It doesn't mean that you are normal and it's all in your head or this is like your personality flaw or something. It just means that you probably need to find somebody else to help you. So if your doctor isn't on board with this, if they're telling you you're too young or it's not your hormones or they won't test you, whatever the case may be,

22:55

don't give up because help is available. You don't have to put up with feeling this way. It's just that just like the doctor's not looking for the answers in the right place, unfortunately, you're looking for help in the wrong place because you're going to your doctor expecting they're supposed to be the one that knows how to fix this. And unfortunately, in most cases, that's not really true. But don't give up because you can find people who can help you. And what I would say is when

23:23

When I'm working with somebody, I feel like the most important thing that I do is certainly not writing prescriptions for hormone replacement therapy. The most important thing that I think that I do is I give women the information that they need, either by understanding their history or interpreting their lab results, and giving them the information that they need in order to take back control of their own health.

23:47

so that they can keep themselves well and keep themselves out of all of our doctor's offices as much as possible. So what I really want them to understand is what's going on in their body, how is it making them feel, you know, why is it happening, and what can be done about it? Because I feel like, especially when we have hormonal imbalances, a lot of times we feel a little bit out of control, especially with our mood. And

24:10

That sense of understanding what's going on, having a sense of control, knowing what you can do to help yourself, I think is really, really important. That's so helpful. Okay, let's circle back to saliva and urine testing so we don't leave that open loop.

24:22

So saliva testing is an okay way to measure hormones. I like it, especially for younger women who are, you know, say in their 30s, because what we're really looking for most likely in that age group is estrogen and progesterone imbalances. And the normal range for progesterone on a lot of these saliva tests is 20%.

24:46

Looking at women who don't have symptoms. So in a blood test, the normal range is super broad and it's just looking at, you know, the 95% of the population lands in this zone. But in the saliva test, it's more commonly normed for women who feel good. So it's more likely that it will show if there's a problem.

25:07

The other thing that saliva tests are really great for is cortisol because cortisol changes over the day. We have a circadian rhythm.

25:15

And it's supposed to be highest in the morning so you can leap out of bed and get started with your day. And then it's supposed to go down over the day so that you're relaxed and calm and you can sleep soundly at night. But what happens to a lot of us is we don't have enough cortisol in the morning. So now we need coffee or something to get our brain going so we can get started with our day. And then we're all wound up and our brain won't turn off and we can't sleep at night. And then people go for sleeping pills or melatonin or something to help go to sleep.

25:42

but their cortisol circadian rhythm is flipped around backwards. So if all we did was send you to the lab to get a blood test for cortisol, if you go at a different time of the day, you're going to get a totally different number. So for blood tests, only the eight in the morning one is valid, but we can't see what happens over the day. So in a saliva test, we can look at what goes on in the day

26:03

We can even look at something called a cortisol awakening response, where we get your saliva the moment that you realize you're awake. We get it 30 minutes later and then 30 minutes after that, and we should see a nice spike, which is the normal circadian pattern. So we get lots more information about cortisol if we do it in a saliva test than in a blood test.

26:23

And then we have urine testing. It's often called Dutch testing. And urine testing looks not just at the level of hormones in your system, but it looks at how your body processes the hormones. So for example, estrogen, there's multiple different kinds of estrogen in our bodies. And the estrogen has to get metabolized down these different biochemical processes, down these different pathways.

26:47

There's one pathway that actually is protective against breast cancer. And then there's another pathway that could sort of be helpful towards breast cancer. And so if we can see what pathway you're going down, there are some natural things that we can do in order to help fix it. Part of it is genetic, but a lot of it is environmental. We especially like this for women who are at higher risk for breast cancer for whatever reason.

27:10

Or women who have things like fibroids or heavy periods or endometriosis, where we worry that they may not be processing and clearing the estrogen out of their system in a healthy way. And we just can't get those kinds of things if we're looking at a blood test or a saliva test.

27:27

On the other hand, if women are menopausal and we know that their estrogen levels are really low, when we're looking at these different pathways, the results aren't going to be accurate if your estrogen level is really low. So there's some times when these tests are much more helpful than others. And that's why we want to individualize the decision. There's no one right test that's the perfect test in every situation.

27:49

That makes sense. And it's so good to know that there are options for this. And I would guess a lot of women listening feel a lot more empowered to kind of direct their own decisions related to this and to advocate for themselves and ask questions to help really understand what's going on. And I know you also have a lot of resources for follow-ups for this and a lot more deep learning people can do on your website and with resources you have. So for anyone who wants to learn more and keep going with their education around this topic, where can they find you and where can they find those resources?

28:18

Sure. So my practice is Signature Wellness in Charlotte, North Carolina, and the website is signaturewellness.org. There's lots of information on the website. You can follow me at Dr. Deb Matthew on Instagram and Facebook. And I also wrote a book to help women sort of figure out whether their symptoms could be from a hormone problem. It's called This Is Not Normal, A Busy Woman's Guide to Symptoms of Hormone Imbalances.

28:42

And there's lots of checklists so that you can see, could it be low progesterone? Is it high estrogen? Is it a cortisol problem? What might it be? There's some tips to start getting your hormones balanced naturally and also some tips on how to talk to your doctor and even some resources for where to go to find a provider who can help you. And we'll put the link to the show notes so you can download a free copy.

29:01

Amazing. Well, Dr. Deb, this has been such a fun conversation as was our first conversation. I will put links to everything you mentioned in the show notes so people can find you and keep learning from you. And I know I learned a lot and I'm going to follow up on some of these points myself. Thank you so much for your time today and for everything you shared and for the obvious passion you have in helping women. Thank you so much.

29:22

Thank you. And thank you for listening and sharing your most valuable resources, your time, your energy, and your attention with us today. We're both so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast. If you're enjoying these interviews, would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes for me?

29:43

Doing this helps more people to find the podcast, which means even more moms and families can benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time. And thanks as always for listening.

Edit:2025.04.30

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