00:00 Forget frequently asked questions. Common sense, common knowledge, or Google. How about advice from a real genius? 95% of people in any profession are good enough to be qualified and licensed. 5% go above and beyond. They become very good at what they do, but only 0.1%. 00:16 are real geniuses. Richard Jacobs has made it his life's mission to find them for you. He hunts down and interviews geniuses in every field. Sleep science, cancer, stem cells, ketogenic diets, and more. Here come the geniuses. This is the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs. 00:37 Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius Podcast. My guest today is Larry Burke. He's an MD and a CEHP, a Certified Energy Health Practitioner. He uses what's called EFT, tapping, hypnosis, dream work, expressive writing, and Enneagram to coach you to heal physical illnesses. So we're going to talk about that and dreams and his work. So welcome, Larry. Thanks for coming. Yeah, good to be here. 01:01 Good. Tell me a bit about your background. How did you get into this area of health and medicine that I guess, you know, people label as an alternative? Well, I'm a somewhat unusual breed. I'm a holistic radiologist, which most people think is an oxymoron. So I 01:17 I started out in the early days of magnetic resonance imaging back in the 1980s. And we were just doing pioneering work on MRI of the shoulder and MRI of the knee. And then I did that for the next 40 years and finally retired three years ago from Duke radiology faculty. And along the way, I discovered that many of my MRI patients were claustrophobic. And in order to get them in and out of the magnet, 01:45 I had to either give him Valium or you had to teach him self-hypnosis. You go in there and it's like, and it's right around your face and you can't move. And it's just like, 01:57 It's terrible. It's been described by a patient as a coffin that makes noise. Yeah, exactly right. So I learned hypnosis, which turned out to be a much better alternative than Valium. And it was actually empowering for people to have this experience of using their own resources to get through a stressful situation. Then they could use that skill later when they went to the dentist or whatever. We wound up training a lot of the MRI techs. 02:24 and how to teach basic hypnosis, which is simple questions like, where would you rather be than laying here in this magnet? Oh, I'd like to be at the beach or the mountains and just go 02:32 Just go there and we'll tell you when to come back. And that's real basic hypnosis. Obviously, there's many, many layers of deeper hypnosis. But that was my entree into alternative medicine. Then I was on the National Safety Committee for MRI. And one of the things we were concerned about other than claustrophobia was the health effects of electromagnetic fields. And we were a bit ahead of our time then. Because the only thing people were really concerned about back in the 80s was… 02:58 the health effects of power lines and radar. There were no cell phones. Yeah, now cell phones with iPods in your head and all that, it's not good. And strangely enough, I read a book called The Body Electric, Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life by Robert Becker, who invented bioelectric bone healing on an orthopedic radiologist that was right up my alley. And in the middle of the book is… 03:21 he got given a million dollars by the NIH to find out how does acupuncture work? It must be electromagnetic. And he did some interesting research showing that the skin resistance actually changes at the, at the site of the big acupuncture points so that you can even use a little meter. It beeps when you go over the point and put your needle in there. And the caption in the book was acupuncture has an objective basis in reality. So I, 03:48 I learned acupuncture about 10 years later and was co-founder of the Duke Integrative Medicine Center back in 1998. And then about four years later, I discovered emotional freedom techniques, which is the tapping technique, where it's sort of an ideal combination between hypnosis and acupuncture, where you tap on the acupuncture points with your fingers instead of putting needles in them while you're focusing on a negative phrase as opposed to 04:14 hypnosis would be a positive for us. And that essentially is like deleting a malware program out of your body. By tapping on the acronym once, you effectively uninstall a traumatic malware program that got downloaded into your nervous system perhaps years ago. And then you use hypnosis to install a new program. And it works really effectively and really quickly, and it's safe. And that was the basis for my coaching practice. And then by me keeping a dream diary for about 40 years, 04:42 And a couple of my friends told me they had dreams about breast cancer. I never really heard about that before, but they claim the dreams happened before they had any x-ray studies or before they had a lump or any symptoms. As I was a researcher, I wanted to find out more about this diagnostic technique. And I did a survey around the world and found 18 women around the world who had a similar experience finding the breast cancer ahead of time and before they had any symptoms or signs. So that prompted me to now have all my coaching clients 05:10 Keep a dream diary because it gives you some amazing information about physical health and healing. What do you mean? What happens in a dream? How does it correlate with how you actually feel? Yeah. 05:21 I mean, well, the very first example was one of my close friends who had a dream one night that she was on the operating room table and a woman surgeon was operating on her left breast on cancer. And she was 50 years old, you know, hadn't had any problems. But she was so convinced that she went in to get a mammogram. And the radiologist came out and said, you know, your mammogram's fine. You can come back in six months. And she said, no, no, no, I can't leave. 05:44 you have to do an ultrasound. And the radiologist kind of rolls her eyes and goes, well, we don't just do ultrasound, you know, on a fishing expedition. There has to be a lump or you have to have, you know, a mammogram that shows something suspicious. And she said, well, I'm not leaving the radiology department until you do the ultrasound. And so the radiologist reluctantly gets the ultrasound probe out and says, well, I wouldn't even know where to look. She said, well, just look right here. She points to where it wasn't a dream. The radiologist puts it on the breast and is shocked to find a one centimeter cancer deep in the breast. And 06:13 And that was pretty much a freak show for that radiologist. And she said, how did you know it was there? That's when she told her it was a dream, only after the fact. Oh, wow. And then two weeks later, she went for her appointment for the surgeon. And she walked in and immediately recognized the woman from the dream. She had seen her a couple weeks before. So that led me down the rabbit hole into many layers of dream interpretation, which is quite fascinating. Oh, wow. 06:39 Well, how many times have you seen that before where someone's dream became reality later on? I'd only heard it from one friend of mine, and it wasn't about breast cancer. She was a very prolific dreamer. Every morning she would get up and write down her dreams. And she had a dream about, I don't know, it was about five or so years before I met her, of a spider crawling out of her mouth. And she interpreted that as having cancer in her mouth. So she went in. 07:06 The surgeon did a biopsy of her tongue for a suspicious area and came back negative. What happens with people who are talented dreamers, if they don't get the answer they want the first time, then they ask again. And they actually intentionally write a question down in your dream diary and say, tell me more about that dream about the spider last night. I'm not sure I got enough information. And the next day, two characters from the TV show M.A.S.H. show up, Hot Lips, Hula Hand, and one of the surgeons. And they say… 07:33 Yeah. 07:51 And so people, once they make the initial diagnosis, sometimes they get advice about what to do about the situation in terms of healing or treatment from more dreams. So it's kind of a skill once you develop it that turns out to be quite useful. Hmm. 08:09 Interesting. So what, again, does someone have to be having dreams and they tell you and then you say, all right, I can analyze them? Or do you ask them and maybe they're surprised and they say, you know, I haven't thought about it, but now that you mentioned it, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And some of my coaching clients signs up to work with me. I'll just give them the prompt to start your dream diary, start asking a question every night that you want an answer to. It doesn't have to be about health. It could be about your job or your relationships. 08:35 whatever is on your mind. And just assume that any dream you have is going to be related to that question. And people get some amazing insights into their situations. But it does, like 08:46 require setting that intention to ask that question and expect an answer. And some people will tell me, oh, I don't remember my dreams. I haven't remembered my dreams in months. But once they start setting the intention, sometimes they'll get a little dream fragment, a word or an image, and then the next night they'll get a whole full-blown dream that explains everything to them. It's pretty amazing how it works. 09:09 Interesting. Are you able to tell the person, I don't know, tonight when you go to sleep, think about this, that, and the other, and I guess induce them to have a dream somehow with suggestions? I shouldn't pick the question because it's really going to be the thing that's on their mind the most. And that's going to trigger the subconscious to generate the answer. Oh, you can't guide the dream with suggestions? I leave it up to them to suggest. 09:35 I'll just say, well, you seem to be worried about your breast or your leg or whatever it is. You might want to ask a question about that tonight and then just leave it up to them to do that. And then my job then is later when they bring the dream back to me is to, we use the International Association for the Study of Dreams protocol, which is you take the 09:55 the person's dream as if it were your own. You listen to the dream and then you start with the phrase, if this were my dream, I'd wonder if that spider meant that there was a cancer crawling in your mouth. So you don't tell them what it means. You tell them what it means to you. And then the dreamer has the choice of either agreeing with… 10:14 how you feel about it or saying, no, it doesn't feel right to me. I think it means this instead. And sometimes we do dream groups where you actually have like half a dozen people discussing someone's dream and you'll get six different opinions, which is very valuable sometimes. 10:28 Before we continue, I've been personally funding the Finding Genius podcast for four and a half years now, which has led to 2,700 plus interviews of clinicians, researchers, scientists, CEOs, and other amazing people who are working to advance science and improve our lives and our world. Even though this podcast gets 100,000 plus downloads a month, we need your help to reach hundreds of thousands more worldwide. Please visit findinggeniuspodcast.com and click on support us. 10:54 We have three levels of membership from $10 to $49 a month, including perks such as the ability to see ahead in our interview calendar and ask questions of upcoming guests, transcripts of podcasts you're interested in, the ability to request specific topics or guests, and more. Visit FindingGeniusPodcast.com and click support us today. Now, back to the show. Well, why is it valuable? Just one of them happens to be right or… 11:18 It gives a better perspective. They're all right. They're just different dimensions of dreams can be interpreted in so many different ways. Someone will pick up one thing and then someone else will notice another thing and they're both could be true. My strangest experience like that was particularly regarding precognitive dreams, which are dreams that come true. 11:39 true that you have and you've written it down you've got the evidence that you had this dream and then a day later or a week later the exact thing happens and that we call that a precognitive dream well i had a series of dreams in 1996 about three or four dreams of specifically of tornado and i was pretty blown away when every time i had a tornado during the next day there was a tornado in the news particularly here in north carolina we don't rarely have tornadoes and and 12:06 I would just check the newspaper the next day. Yep, there's a tornado in North Carolina. And even once I was in Florida on a business trip, I was flying home the next day, and the dream I had was, there's a tornado hitting the airport in North Carolina. And my plane got rerouted the next day because the tornado tore the top off the hangar in the mania. Oh, wow. And I was pretty enamored with this whole being able to seemingly predicting the future thing, but… 12:33 20 years later, I went to a conference on dream symbols and someone mentioned tornadoes. And they said, when you have tornado dreams, it usually means your whole life is being turned upside down. And for some reason, it took me 20 years to remember that in 1996, my whole career got turned upside down. I went out of mainstream radiology into holistic medicine, integrated medicine, while I was having those tornado dreams. All I could… 12:59 obsess on was the fact that they would come to the next day. It never occurred to me that they meant something about my life. So there are two different meanings in the same dream. Interesting. I guess like a deck of tarot cards, and I'm not saying this to demean it, but it's like, you know, a deck of tarot cards without meaning if you dealt with these dreams appear to have correlative meaning. Oh, 13:18 Just discovered a new friend who's a retired sleep researcher from up in Canada named Carlisle Smith and he wrote a book called Heads Up Dreaming and I 13:28 I had not heard of that when I wrote my book on dreams that can save your life back in 2018, but he's sort of been following a parallel path to me, except as a psychology grad student, he started keeping meticulous records of the dreams of everyone in his family and his graduate students. And he found out that a certain percentage of them absolutely would come true within a day, sometimes longer than that. But he said that the ones that tend to have a tendency to be precognitive were short-term 13:52 dreams of like one specific scene. And it wasn't one of these epic long dreams, a big saga. It was just these short ones. And he said, it was amazing that you could sometimes get so good at this that you could actually be warned of a coming event, like a car accident or some disaster and actually change the future. He said, and that I'd not heard of. Usually it's like… What do you mean change the future? Because… 14:20 We're going to sue people for what was going to happen. Tuesday, people take an action. And then the dream didn't happen? Or was the dream like, this is going to happen no matter what? And the car accident that they were going to be in was averted at the last minute. Did that contradict the dream they had? No. 14:35 No. Oh, yeah, yeah. The dream said you're going to be a car accident. And right before the car accident happened, they remembered the dream and took a right turn and missed the accident. Okay. So people are able to go counter to what the dream shows them. It's a song? I'd never heard that before. Yeah. Yeah. 14:51 I don't know if it was like a rule or anything. You couldn't, you know, once the dream is, you're slated, it's slated to happen and that's it. Yeah. I mean, most people say, oh, you get, you're getting warned, but there's nothing you can do about it. It's like, it's, you're seeing the future. It's not like the future is changeable, but this guy seems to prove that it is. Yeah. Very interesting. So, all right. So how often are you using this dream analysis in your practice now? Every day with my clients. Yeah. And often it'll be, 15:19 When I'm doing the tapping technique, again, we're looking for a malware program from the past to uninstall from the hard drive. And sometimes we're not sure which one's the top priority. And I'll ask them, well, did you have a dream about this? And once they share the dream, it's pretty obvious what the focus of the session needs to be. And that works pretty amazingly well. Okay. Interesting. What other modalities or things are you incorporating in your practice that are unusual? Oh, 15:48 I'd say I also use sometimes, there's actually in my workshops that I do, I combine four or five different techniques in an attempt to see how many different things people can do in a short period of time. And these are also all scientifically evidence-based approaches. The first is meditation. I have them just do five minutes of meditation. And then I 16:11 But I usually do a paradoxical meditation. If there's something they're concerned about, like a fear of something, I'll have them use a mantra. This is the opposite of that, which is, I am safe. So they're worried about fear. They're afraid of something, but I have them say, I'm safe over and over again for five minutes. And what that does is that brings up 16:29 all the things they're afraid of it's like you know you're pretending to deny that that you're afraid by saying i'm safe i'm safe i'm safe it just manages to dredge up all the stuff you're afraid of and i tell them it does well yeah because they're saying i'm safe when they know they're not and so they sit there saying i'm safe i'm safe and all the objections come oh no i'm not safe hell no it's a scary world out there oh i've got all these fears and so i tell them just 16:54 deal with that for five minutes and then you're going to write them all down for five minutes and then i just have them get out a sheet of paper and it's called expressive writing it's different than journaling journaling you know you're keeping a dream journal like you want to keep that forever and you want to go back and reflect on expressive writing you get a you get a single sheet of paper you write for five minutes and try to fill like one side of a page use as many emotional words as you can about all your fears and all your things you're worried about and then 17:19 At the end of that five minutes, you stop and look back over what you've written and look for what's upsetting you the most. And then we use that as the focus for the EFT session because that's what's bothering you the most. That's the program that's triggering you and that's the one we want to deal with. And once you tamper out that program, then the usual ritual is you destroy the paper that you've written. You either shred it or burn it because the idea is you want to get that out of your body. And I didn't. 17:46 Until I took a course on this 10 years ago, I didn't realize there was over 100 research papers proving that this improves your health just by doing that. That's crazy. Why do you think that is? Because you're actually doing something to get those emotions out of your body. One of the problems with talk therapy, the way most people go to a psychologist or therapist to do cognitive behavioral therapy, that's proving not to be as effective as some of these other techniques that involve… 18:14 the body in some way. The tapping involves the body. There's some different somatic therapies, arm movement, desensitization, reprocessing, EMDR. Well, it's like this physical animal movement and maybe lower brain activity, you know? Maybe that's why it has such a powerful influence because, you know, that permanent part of our brain with phobias and things like that and fight or flight, I mean, it's incredibly powerful. And actually, just the act of writing is a physical act. It gets it out of your body, out of your head. And one 18:43 one of the famous psychiatrists in this field, Bessel van der Kolk, wrote a pretty amazing book about 10 years ago called The Body Keeps the Score. You've heard of that. So yeah, that's like the Bible for this kind of work. And he basically says, you can do all the talk therapy you want, but if your body still believes it, it doesn't matter. 19:01 So you're asking, so your body can't communicate to you with words, but this is a way that you can communicate with your body without it literally saying, blah, blah, blah, blah, talking to you? Well, you know, it's interesting. Jung and Freud, I'll talk about the subconscious as like some abstract thing in your consciousness somewhere. I have come to believe that the subconscious actually lives in your body. These memories are stored in your body. And in order to really heal, you need to access the memories that are stored in your body. 19:29 stored in your body and release them. And I actually have a fun play on words with the word emotion. In terms of the acupuncture meridians, there's the mysterious chi or energy flowing through your meridians. And 19:42 If you break the word emotion up into two words and say E for energy in motion, emotions are supposed to flow through your body. And if they get stuck, that's when they get a symptom. Any symptom, any emotion you hold on to winds up creating a symptom at some point. And I treat those blocks like something that needs to be released, that needs to keep moving. And there's a wonderful poem by Rumi that we use a lot in the mindfulness program. 20:07 called The Guest House. And it says, this being human is like a guest house. You never know who's coming to visit your house next. It could be a wonderful joy, a 20:18 terrible sadness, a horrible thief. And he says, welcome them all in because you don't know what they're preparing you for next. You know, perhaps the burglar is going to rob you blind and clean out your entire house and some new joy is going to come in the next day. But the whole point is the title of the poem is called The Guest House. They can all come, but they can't stay. Interesting. So how many sessions does it take? I know everyone's different, but 20:45 You know, on average, how many sessions does it take for a person to experience relief and what does that look like for them? You know, it varies from person to person. Some of it depends on how much childhood trauma they've had. There's something called the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study from the CDC. It's probably the most important study ever done in medicine that most doctors don't know about them. 21:04 There were 17,000 Kaiser Permanente patients filled out a 10-item questionnaire about abuse and neglect in childhood before the age of 18. And what they found was that predicted their likelihood to get 21:15 chronic disease later in life, their score was above four. Terrible things happened to them before they were 18. Their life expectancy would go down by a decade. And it turned out to be the biggest risk factor for chronic disease ever discovered, beyond smoking, beyond drinking, how many adverse childhood experiences you have. So if you have someone who you encounter and you're working with who's had a lot, has a high ACE score, then you're going to have more work to do to get them healed. But if you have some person who had a happy childhood and has an ACE score of zero or one, and then they have a 21:42 bad car accident. That might be something you need to clear out of your system. And that was actually the very first case I ever did with the EFT was I was teaching a stress management class for Duke undergraduates. Student came in after a fall break and said, oh my gosh, I got hives all over my body. Itchy, itchy, itchy. I go to student health, they gave me some Benadryl. It took the itching away, but now I'm too doped up to study. So I take in the Benadryl, all the hives came back. I don't 22:07 I had just learned this technique the day before. I said, well, there's a new thing we can use. What exactly happened? Well, I had this scary car accident on the Jersey Turnpike and spun around in the rain, hit a telephone pole. Airbag went off, wasn't injured, but I was really shook up and I've had hives ever since. And I said, oh, well, maybe that's something stuck under your skin. Your body's holding on to fear. And I said, let's do this technique. And all I had was a one-page cheat sheet. I was just reading the instructions. I said, 22:33 It says, just make a phrase that captures your experience. She said, scary car accident that says a scale of zero to 10. How bad was it? How bad is it right now? And it's called subjective units of distress. 10 is the worst ever in your life. Zero, there's nothing at all. And it turned out that hers, she said, I was about a six. But she looked, 22:52 more shook up on a six. I said, add some more words to that to make it worse. And she said, oh, scary thought I was going to die car accident. I made an eight. So I said, okay, let's just follow directions and hit the hit. You tap like five or six times on each of the points on your face and chest. And you repeat that phrase over and over again. And she did it on one side of the body and down the other side. It took two minutes and her score went from an eight to a four. And I thought, this might be working. And then I looked at the sheet and I said, you can repeat the same process or you can change 23:19 change up the phrase to a different aspect that might be worse. I saw what's worse than almost dying in a car. I said, is there something worse? And she goes, well, I totaled my dad's car. I said, how high is that? That was an 11. So she tapped, I'm guilty about my dad's car, guilty about his car. And I went the whole way down to about two. And she looked visibly relaxed. I said, here, take this sheet and just at home before next class in two days, just don't take any more medicine and just tap every time you feel the need to. She came back two days later, she was beaming. She goes, no more medicine, no more hives. 23:45 And I tap every time I feel a little itchy. And then she said, I tapped on all my other car accidents. I'm like, what? I didn't know she had any other car accidents, but she figured out it worked for this one. Let's go back and handle all those other ones. Her inner hero kind of took over and told her what to do because trauma tends to come in a 24:01 in the theme through your life. If one bad car accident and you never regain your confidence in driving, what's going to happen? Well, you're going to attract another car accident until you go back and fix the first one. And that's what she did. And the same thing is true. You have an abusive father. You wind up having an abusive boyfriend. Your mom marries someone who's abusive and keeps coming until you finally go back and heal the origin of that from your adverse childhood experience. 24:21 So how often have you seen tapping to be good, the EFT? Well, in that case, what happened in that case, we call that a one-minute wonder. You know, just did it once, it was gone. And I've had that happen a few other times. And I've had other people, I usually do like four sessions with boys, sort of a package. And usually by the end of four sessions, they've managed to have some kind of more success. Who are the hardest people to help and why do you think you've experienced it? 24:44 Well, I mean, more women are willing to do this work than men. But I have to say, the biggest breakthroughs have been in military veterans because they're totally skeptical. When it works for them, man, does it work. Actually, when I opened my private practice finally in coaching, the very first clone I had was a Vietnam medic, trauma Vietnam from 40 years before. And his wife, who's a psychotherapist, referred him to me and said, he's got some anger issues that are unresolved, left over in the war. See what you can do. So he comes into my office. 25:12 and sits in a chair and he's like, he's a businessman. He's having a second marriage. He holds down a job. He's not a homeless veteran. And I said, what do you want to work on? He goes, I can't tell you. I'm like, okay. Fortunately, we have a technique and it's called the movie tech. You just simply ask someone, if you had a whole collection of DVDs of movies, what would be the title of the worst movie you have? Oh, Inferno. 25:33 It's all over me. And of course my immediate reaction was, I don't know if I want to see. But then you have him run the movie projector like one frame at a time. So it's on slow-mo and he goes at his own pace. And if anything gets distressing, he stops the projector and then does some tapping. 25:50 So his number doesn't go up too high because, you know, some of these people with bad PTSD, their number goes off the charts and they freak out. So we just gradually eased into it. He said, I'm in the foxhole with my best friends in Vietnam. And a mortar shell comes in and basically explodes and blows his three buddies all over to pieces. And he's the medic and he's trying to save them all and they all die. 26:11 And he's been carrying that for 40 years. And we basically just started tapping once he had said, OK, and when now that you've got that movie and you've seen the movie, you can go through the movie again and we'll tap our way through it again until your number goes way down until you can talk through the whole thing and have your number not go up at all. 26:28 And then at the end, I usually shift to a more positive, hypnotic kind of suggestion. I said, okay, now that we've cleared all that out of your system, what are your favorite memories of those three guys? And he starts rattling off all their great qualities. You know, he tears up. He's having an emotional experience. It's like the buddies, like he's back in a foxhole with these three guys. And his anger and grief is completely gone after a half an hour. It was amazing to watch. 26:52 That's really cool. I was like, wow. And I was one of the first veterans I'd ever worked with. It was like, I didn't know what was going to happen. And having a beginner's mind is sometimes useful. But then I realized, wait, we still have half an hour left in the session. What else do you want to do? He goes, well, they took me off the front lines and sent me back to the base area. 27:07 to the morgue where I put the body parts back together in the backs. That was a real upgrade. And so we tapped on that and we finished the session. And I'm thinking, boy, I hope I didn't open some big can of worms. He said, check in with me in a week and come back for another appointment. Just make sure, you know, you're healing. Comes back a week later and I go, how are you doing? He goes, I said, do you have any Vietnam nightmares or flashbacks? He goes, no, I 27:31 I think we handled the big ones. It's like, and it's true that if you get the really big ones, it knocks all the little ones over. You don't even need to deal with them. And so I'm thinking, okay, we got a whole session here. What do you want to work on now? He goes, my dad was a general in the army. I'm like, ooh, that'd be tough. So he tapped him. My dad was a general. My dad was a tough ass general. He did that in half an hour. And I said, well, we still got a half an hour left. What do you want to tap on now? My boss is an asshole. The whole way from 40 years in the… He's like, yeah, my therapist. Oh my God. 27:57 And so he finished that and he was done. He went back home. His wife emails him and said, what the hell did you do? He said, he's like a different guy, you know, so it's crazy. Oh, that's really cool. Is it, does it work with, is there any age restriction? Like, have you ever done it with someone young, underage, you know, like eight, 10 years old, 12 years old? I mean, kids are kind of in a suggestible hypnotic state to begin with. So if you use the proper language, they, they're easy to work. And there's also something easier, even easier for kids rather than tapping on their face and chest. 28:24 We just tap your arms across your chest and tap on your upper arms with the opposite hands. 28:28 That's called butterfly tapping. And that's great. Works great for kids. It's like a comforting motion. You're tapping on a lot of acupuncture meridians. And that's been done in disaster humanitarian relief efforts all over the world. And it's called butterfly tapping. Yeah, I don't know. Do you try it on yourself? Oh, yeah. It's a self-care technique. You do it. I recommend doing it once a day on the worst thing that happened to you today. It's like, oh, let's tap that away. So you don't wake up with it tomorrow morning. It's also a great way to get to sleep at night. 28:55 is if your mind is ruminating on something, you just tap on it and say, my mind is racing, I'll never get to sleep. Oh, I know. Wiped out tomorrow. And then at the end, you start shifting to, I'm letting that go, I'm falling asleep, I'm yawning, and then you go to sleep. So it's a pretty effective technique. When you ask who doesn't work with, I tend not to work with addicts, you know, alcoholics, smoking. I mean, it has been used with those people, but you need special training in addiction therapy if you're going to work with someone. Or why? What happens if you… 29:24 have someone who's an alcoholic tap, what happens to them? Maybe it goes back for opposite and the behavior becomes not that bad. Maybe it heightens their youth. They tend to have a lot of baggage with them. I mean, their adverse childhood experience scores tend to be quite high. And one of the reasons they're addicted is they're covering up all this trauma that they've been carrying since childhood. So they need a pretty comprehensive approach. I'm not looking for a quick fix on someone who's an addict. What if you don't know what it is, but you just, you try to think of it, but you don't know. 29:52 And you do some tapping. Can it still work if you don't know what it is? Well, my own example is I had chronic shoulder pain for 20 plus years on my left side during my first marriage, which finally started going away when I got divorced. And that was my aha moment of realizing that a lot of shoulder pain is related to depressed anger. It's just stuck in your shoulder, carrying that burden on your shoulder. 30:11 And so my left shoulder doesn't hurt me anymore at all. And then I got right shoulder pain related to some political anger a couple of decades ago that not went away in a few months. And nowadays, when I get shoulder pain, which is pretty rare, I mean, I 30:24 I do an insane number of pull-ups and push-ups every week and have no shoulder pain at all. But if I ever get shoulder pain, I'll assume I'm angry about something. And I'll start tapping on just my shoulder's really angry. My shoulder's really angry. I don't know what it's about. My shoulder's really angry. And sometimes just in that tapping process, something will come to the surface. So that's what I'm angry about. And then I'll release that and my shoulder will feel better. It allows like… 30:45 How important is it if you bring up a memory or you can't bring up a memory, but you identify where in your body the constriction of the problem is and you tap on that versus just the tapping points? I'll usually ask where people, it works the best if they have an event that they're working on 31:01 and emotion and a place in their body where they feel it. Those are the three things that really make it the most effective. But sometimes you only have two out of three and you just have work with God. The one thing I take home message for people really is that all symptoms should be treated as sacred messages from your soul. It's like, 31:17 Symptoms in Western medicine are just things to be suppressed no matter what the cost. Drugs that have side effects, surgery procedures, whatever, just make it go away. And I refer to that as the shooting the message approach. Whereas if you assume that every symptom you have is a sign that there's something in your life that's out of whack and you're off course, and the symptom is just attempting to redirect you and make a course correction, that way you wind up making friends with your symptoms. Because now when I get shoulder pain, it just tells me I'm angry. 31:45 And then I deal with it. So my shoulder's not my ally. So before, I was hating it for 20 years because I didn't know what it was about. That's amazing. Have you seen it not work on somebody? And if so, why? I think some people just want a pill. I have a friend who is a cardiologist working in integrated medicine. And he said when people came into him for chest pain or whatever their heart problem was, he'd spend 10 minutes talking to him and he'd size them up and go, you just want a pill, don't you? Yeah. They write a prescription and they're gone. 32:11 Someone else would go, you're really suffering from severe emotional heartbreak here, aren't you? And they go, yeah, you're right. No one's ever actually acknowledged that. And he said, why don't you enroll in the mindfulness meditation course, do some relaxation techniques, do some expressive writings, and you're really going through a major transformation in your life. And this symptom is triggering this. That's the two different paths. 32:34 Okay. Maybe one more modality if there is one, but between dream analysis and EFT, it seems that you help a lot of people. Is there a third modality that's very effective too? Well, I mean, the thing that's really underutilized, I mean, I combine the EFT with hypnosis, but you got to realize that EFT, meditation, expressive writing, hypnosis all have 32:54 literally hundreds of research pages on it. And yet hypnosis is almost shunned in medicine, especially if you're in the Bible about like I am an orthodontist, like, oh, it's the devil's work, you know, when it's really one of the most powerful techniques you can use. And I would, I would have to say I use it people going through surgery all the time because it's 33:11 It's been shown over and over again that the way you go into surgery tends to be the way you come out of it. So if you get yourself into a self-hypnotic state with all these positive suggestions about what you want when you come out the other side of surgery, when you wake up, it's going to start happening. If you go in fearful, and the worst thing you can do when you go to surgery is to pay attention when the surgeon's reading you the consent form. It's the worst thing in the world you can read before you go into surgery. He says, you could bleed, you could get infected, you die. These are all horrible suggestions, but 33:39 that you're going to the OR. And so if you're a surgeon skillful, he'll say, well, you could bleed, but we're very careful to monitor your blood. So that doesn't happen. It's very, you could get infected, but we're giving you antibiotics. That'll never, never problem. And, and, you know, very rarely do people die. And, you know, and so you, you negate all this. If you, in hypnosis, if you say, but after the first thing you say, it negates it. It's like, oh yeah, you could bleed, but that never happens. So it, it, 34:06 deletes that first phrase. So you really want, the things you really want to go into surgery with are, think about what you want to feel like when you wake up. You want it comfortable. And the real essential thing is you want to pee, you want to eat, and you want to poop. And if you go in thinking that as soon as I wake up, I'm going to have to pee, go to move my bowels, and I'm going to be hungry for my favorite food, you will do amazing. 34:27 Well, those are just kind of like neutral things, you know. Oh, I'm going to be hungry. I'm going to feel this. I'm going to do that. Oh, most people wake up from surgery, they're nauseated and vomiting. But if you tell yourself you're going to wake up hungry for your favorite food, you will. And it gets even more sophisticated than that. I don't know about that with sleep. But you're going to get like six hours. You could say like, oh man, I'm only going to get six hours. I'm going to wake up feeling like shit. Or you could say, I have to get a fifth of your hours. Some people get by on a very minimal amount. Some people need a lot. 34:52 But for my hypnosis teacher, went through surgery, major surgery with no anesthesia. I wouldn't have believed that if I hadn't seen the video. But she had had an emergency C-section during the birth of one of her children. And she told the anesthesiologist, look, I'm very sensitive to anesthesia. Don't give me very much. And they ignored her and she wound up in the ICU and almost died. So, and they had to stitch her up really quickly and left her with a big hernia in her abdomen that kept 35:16 popping out all the time and she needed to get it fixed. And she was terrified to go and have anesthesia and surgery. So she found a hypnotist and a hypnotherapist in Pittsburgh to train her how to do it herself. And then she had to shop around to find a surgeon who had operated on her with no anesthesia. And an anesthesiologist who would stick a needle in her arm and not give her anything. 35:33 And so she does that. She gives herself the hypnotic suggestions when she walks in that she's going to become numb from the chest down to her knees. But the key thing she did was she said, and all the blood is going to leave my abdomen and go someplace else. So it's not wasted. And also she said, since I want to learn something, I want to feel the knife, but not any pain. So when 35:54 When she started the video, I thought, she showed this to medical students at Duke all the time, just blow their minds. And I thought she's going to be a deep trance, like unconscious. She's wide awake bullshitting with the anesthesiologist the whole time. While the surgeon has cut a five inch wound in her abdomen, he didn't give her any Novocaine or nothing. And the surgeon said, you sure can do this for a whole hour? And she said, she like did a Jedi mind trick. 36:17 Oh, it won't take that long. And sure enough, because she had sent all the blood away, the surgeon didn't have to manage the blood at all. There was no bleeding for the whole half hour. He said, afterwards, he goes, I didn't realize how much time I spent cauterizing blood vessels and mopping up the blood. I didn't have to do that this time. There was one drop of blood on the gauze pad at the end of a half hour of surgery. And halfway through the surgery, my friend Holly, my teacher, goes, 36:39 there's something digging into my side. Like it hurts my ribs. So he's going, what are you talking about? And he's got his hands inside her abdomen. And he goes, no. And she goes, yeah, you checked. It's kind of bothering me. And so he goes, oh, I'm leaning on the metal retractor that's pulling her wound apart so he can work on it. And he readjusted the retractor and he said, people don't usually complain about that, you know. And then finished up 37:00 The surgery stitched her up and she said, okay. He left the room. The scrub nurse was just there and the scrub nurse in the room. The scrub nurse was trying to clean her up, take the drapes off and wipe the betadine off. And she gets a little, by this time, Holly has now turned the pain switch back on that she had turned off. 37:16 And she turned the bleeding back on and everything else. So it would all heal the way it's supposed to. And she turned just enough pain on so that if there was a problem, she would know about it. So the nurse starts scrubbing around the incision. Holly lets out a blood curve and a scream. And the nurse just freaked out. She said, what's going on? I said, I turned the pain switch back on. And the nurse couldn't believe it. I was like, you just went through major surgery and now you're complaining about me scrubbing your wound. 37:40 And it's just amazingly powerful when it works like that. Holly's the first, she's the first to say that most of her clients don't want to go through surgery. They just want to go in confident and come out and heal quick. Right. So where can other people dip their toe in and evaluate whether the dream therapy or the EFT or other modalities will help them? I mean, they can check my website out, which is LarryBurke.com. 38:01 B-U-R-K, or letmagichappen.com. That's the same website. And I've got lots of blogs. I've got two dozen YouTube videos you can choose from, you know, for preparing for cancer surgery, for losing weight, for dealing with different types of pain. 38:15 sinusitis, all kinds of different things. So just on my YouTube videos, you go and those are all free videos. And I've got lots of blogs and I've got two TEDx talks that are on my homepage that I've posted. Yeah, so lots of, and they can subscribe to a monthly newsletter if I send out a newsletter once a month with some new hot topic and a new YouTube video. And if anyone wants individual coaching, I do 20 minute just intake phone, free phone call just to see if 38:38 It makes any sense for us to work together. And then after that, I do an 80 minute zoom session on a hoard, the tapping session. So they have that use that. Well, it was very good. Well, thanks for coming on the podcast. And it's really interesting, this stuff, you know, so I encourage people to check it out. I know I will. And it's been a great call. Thank you. Appreciate Mark Mead sending me your way. So I love the podcast you do with him. Thanks, Luke. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes. 39:10 You've been listening to the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs. 39:15 If you like what you hear, be sure to review and subscribe to the Finding Genius Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. And want to be smarter than everybody else? Become a premium member at FindingGeniusPodcast.com. This podcast is for information only. No advice of any kind is being given. Any action you take or don't take as a result of listening is your sole responsibility. Consult professionals when advice is needed.
Edit:2025.05.06
00:37 今天的嘉宾是拉里·伯克。他是一名医学博士兼认证能量健康实践者。他使用所谓的EFT（情感聚焦疗法）、轻拍、催眠、梦境工作、表达性写作以及九型人格理论来指导治愈身体疾病。所以我们将讨论这些话题以及梦境和他的工作。
01:01 你是如何进入这个被大家认为是替代疗法的健康和医学领域的呢？
嗯，我算是个比较特别的类型。我是一名整体放射科医生，大多数人会认为这是矛盾的词汇。
01:17 我从20世纪80年代磁共振成像的早期就开始了。那时我们仅对肩部和膝部的MRI进行开创性的研究。然后我这样工作了40年，直到三年前才从杜克大学放射科退休。在我从事MRI工作的过程中，我发现很多病人都有幽闭恐惧症。为了让这些病人能够进出磁共振仪，我不得不给他们服用安定药，或者教他们自我催眠。进去之后，就像是被困在一个狭小的空间里，不能动弹。
01:57 感觉就像太可怕了。有一个病人把它描述成一个会发出噪音的棺材。没错，就是这样。所以我学习了催眠术，结果发现这比安定药要好得多。实际上，这种体验让人们在面对压力时能够利用自己的资源来应对，对他们来说是一种赋权。之后，当他们去看牙医或其他事情时，他们还能运用这个技能。我们最终培训了很多MRI技术人员。
02:24 以及如何教授基本的催眠技巧，比如问一个简单的问题：“你宁愿待在哪里，而不是躺在这个磁共振仪里？哦，我宁愿在海滩或山里。”然后我们就告诉他们什么时候回来。这就是非常基础的催眠。显然，还有更深层次的催眠技巧。但这就是我进入替代医学的起点。后来，我加入了MRI的国家安全委员会。除了幽闭恐惧症之外，我们还担心电磁场的健康影响。那时我们的观点有点超前。因为在80年代，人们真正关心的只是电力线路和雷达的健康影响。那时候还没有手机。现在脑子里装着iPod等功能的手机可不太好。有趣的是，我读过罗伯特·贝克（Robert Becker）写的一本书《电体》，讲的是电磁学以及生命的基础，他发明了生物电骨愈合法，这对于我这个骨科放射科医生来说非常合适。
03:21 书中提到……他被国立卫生研究院（NIH）资助了一百万美元，来研究针灸是如何起作用的？肯定跟电磁有关。他做了一些有趣的研究，发现皮肤电阻实际上在大穴位处会发生变化，所以甚至可以用一个小表来测量。当经过穴位并扎针时，会发出蜂鸣声。书中的标题是“针灸在现实中具有客观基础”。
03:48 我大约在10年后开始学习针灸，是1998年杜克综合医学中心的共同创始人。大约四年后，我发现了一种叫做情感自由技巧（EFT）的技术，也就是轻拍技巧，是一种介于催眠和针灸之间的理想组合，用手指轻拍穴位而不是把针扎进去，同时专注于一个负面的短语，
04:14 催眠对我们来说应该是积极的。这本质上就像是从身体中删除一个恶意软件程序。通过轻拍一次，有效地卸载了一个多年前可能下载到神经系统中的创伤性恶意软件程序。然后用催眠安装一个新程序。这非常有效且迅速，并且很安全。这就是我从事教练工作的基础。然后我坚持记录梦境日记大约40年。
04:42 有几个朋友告诉我，她们梦到了乳腺癌。我之前从未听说过这种情况，但她们声称这些梦是在进行任何X光检查之前、在发现肿块或出现任何症状之前发生的。作为一名研究员，我想了解更多关于这种诊断技术的信息。我在全世界做了一个调查，发现全球有18位女性在出现任何症状或体征之前提前发现了乳腺癌。
05:10 这促使我现在要求所有的教练客户坚持写梦境日记，因为能提供有关身体健康和康复的惊人信息。
这是什么意思？梦中发生了什么？这与你的实际感受有何关联？
05:21 我的意思是，嗯，第一个例子是我的一个密友，有一晚她做了一个梦，梦见自己躺在手术台上，一位女外科医生正在给她左乳做癌症手术。当时她50岁， 之前没有任何问题。但她非常确信，于是去做了乳房X光检查。放射科医生出来后说，你的乳房X光检查正常。六个月后再来吧。她说，不，不，不，我不能离开，得做个超声波检查。
05:44 放射科医生翻了个白眼，说，我们不是随便就做超声波检查的，不是钓鱼探险。必须有一个肿块，或者你必须做一个显示有可疑迹象的乳房X光检查。她说，好吧，除非做了超声波检查，否则我不会离开放射科。于是放射科医生不情愿地拿出超声波探头，说，好吧，我甚至不知道该往哪里看。她说，那就看这里。她指向了那个梦境的地方。放射科医生把探头放在乳房上，震惊地发现乳腺癌深藏在乳房内部，只有一厘米。
那对放射科医生来说几乎是一场怪事。她问，你怎么知道它就在那里？那时她才告诉她那只是一个梦，是在事后说的。哦，哇。两周后，她去预约外科医生的就诊。她走进诊所，立刻认出了那个梦里见过的女人。几周前见过她。这让我掉进了兔子洞，进入了多层次的梦境解读，这相当迷人。哦，哇。
你以前见过多少次有人梦见的事情后来成真了呢？我只听我一个朋友说过，而且那跟乳腺癌无关。她是一个非常能做梦的人。每天早晨她都会起床记下她的梦。她做了一个梦，我不记得了，大概是我认识她五年前的一个梦，梦中有一只蜘蛛从她嘴里爬出来。她把这个梦解释为自己口中有癌症。所以她去就诊了。
外科医生对她的舌头进行了活检，在一个可疑区域取样，结果呈阴性。对于那些有才华的梦想家来说，如果他们第一次没有得到想要的答案，会再次询问。实际上会故意在梦日记中写下一个问题，说：“请再跟我讲讲昨晚关于蜘蛛的那个梦。我不确定我获取的信息是否足够。”第二天，电视剧《M.A.S.H.》中的两个角色出现了，热唇、呼啦圈手和其中一位外科医生。他们说……
07:51 所以，一旦人们做出初步诊断，有时他们会从更多的梦中得到关于如何处理该情况的建议，无论是治愈还是治疗方面的建议。所以一旦培养出这种技能，就会变得相当有用。
08:09 有趣。是不是有人必须得做梦并且告诉你，然后你说，“好的，我可以分析它们”？还是你问他们，可能他们很惊讶，他们说：“你知道，我还没想过这个问题，但既然你提起了，等等，等等。”
是的。我的一些教练客户报名来和我一起工作。我会直接给他们一个提示，开始写梦日记，每晚问一个问题，希望得到答案。这个问题不一定与健康有关。可能与你的工作或人际关系有关。
08:35 无论你在想什么。假设你做的任何梦都将与那个问题有关。人们会获得对他们所处情况的一些惊人见解。但这确实需要，
08:46 比如设定那个意图去问那个问题，并期待得到答案。有些人会告诉我，哦，我不记得我的梦了。我已经好几个月没记得过我的梦了。但是一旦他们开始设定意图，有时候他们会得到一小段梦境、一个词或一个图像，然后第二天晚上他们会做一个完整的梦，这个梦能向他们解释一切。这真是令人惊奇的工作方式。
09:09 有趣。你能在今晚睡觉的时候告诉那个人，我不知道，去想那个、这个和那个，我想以某种方式通过暗示诱导他们做一个梦吗？
我不应该选这个问题，因为这确实会是他们心里最挂念的事情。这会触发潜意识来生成答案。
哦，你不能通过暗示来引导梦境？
我让他们去暗示。
09:35 我就说，嗯，你似乎很担心你的胸部或者你的腿什么的。你或许想今晚问一个问题，然后就让事情顺其自然。然后我的工作就是稍后当他们把梦带回来给我时，我们要使用国际梦境研究协会的研究协议，
09:55 即你要把那个人的梦当作是你自己的梦。你听着那个梦，然后从这句话开始，“如果这是我的梦，我会想知道那只蜘蛛是否意味着你的嘴里长了癌症。”所以你告诉他们它意味着什么。你告诉他们对你来说它意味着什么。然后做梦者有选择同意你对它的看法
10:14 ，或者说，不，我觉得这感觉不对劲。我认为它的意思是这个。有时候我们会进行梦境小组讨论，实际上会有大约6个人讨论某人的梦境，会得到六种不同的意见，这有时非常有价值。
那么，为什么有价值呢？其中一个原因恰好是正确的或者它提供了一个更好的视角。它们都是正确的。它们只是梦境的不同维度可以用许多不同的方式解释。有人会注意到一件事，然后另一个人会注意到另一件事，它们都可能都是真的。我遇到的最奇怪的经历之一特别与预知梦有关，即那些变成现实的梦。
11:39 确实，你已经写下来了，你有证据证明做过这个梦。然后过了一天或者一周，完全相同的事情发生了，我们把这叫做预知梦。我在1996年有一系列关于龙卷风的梦，大概有三四个梦都具体涉及到了龙卷风，每次我梦到龙卷风，第二天新闻里就会有龙卷风发生，特别是在北卡罗来纳州这里，这儿很少出现龙卷风。
第二天我就会查看报纸，没错，北卡罗来纳州有龙卷风。甚至有一次我在佛罗里达州出差，第二天就要飞回家，我做了一个梦，梦见龙卷风袭击了北卡罗来纳州的机场。结果第二天我的航班改道了，因为龙卷风把机库的顶部给掀翻了。哇哦。我对这种似乎能预知未来的事情感到很着迷，但是20年后，我去参加了一个关于梦境符号的会议，有人提到了龙卷风。
他们说，当你做龙卷风的梦时，通常意味着你的生活正在被彻底颠覆。由于某种原因，过了20年时间我才记起来，在1996年，我的整个职业生涯就发生了翻天覆地的变化。就在我做那些龙卷风梦的时候，我从主流放射学领域转向了整体医学、综合医学。我一直纠结于它们会在第二天出现这一事实，从未想过这和我的生活有什么关联。所以在同一个梦里有着两种不同的含义。有趣。我想象着就像一副塔罗牌，我这么说并不是贬低它，但就像是，如果你处理这些似乎有相关意义的梦境，那么一副塔罗牌就没有意义了。
13:18 刚刚发现了一个新朋友，他是一位来自加拿大退休的睡眠研究员，名叫卡莱尔·史密斯，他写了一本书叫《有意识的梦境》，
13:28 我在2018年写那本关于能救你一命的梦的书时，还没听说过这本书，但他走的是和我平行的道路，只不过作为一名心理学研究生，他开始仔细记录他家人和他研究生的梦境。他发现其中一定比例的梦境绝对会在一天之内实现，有时甚至超过一天。但他说，那些倾向于具有预知性质的梦境是短期的
13:52 就像某一个特定场景的梦境。并不是那种史诗般的漫长梦境，一个宏大的叙事。就是这些短暂的梦境。他说，有时候你会做得这么好，以至于实际上可以预见到即将发生的事件，比如车祸或某种灾难，实际改变未来。他说，这是我从未听说过的。通常来说就像是……你是什么意思，改变未来？
14:20 我们会因为将要发生的事情而起诉别人。周二，人们采取行动。然后梦境没有发生？还是说梦境就像是，不管怎样这都会发生？他们原本会遭遇的车祸在最后一刻得以避免。这是否与他们所做的梦相矛盾？不。
14:35 不。那个梦说将会遭遇一场车祸。就在车祸发生前，他们想起了这个梦，于是向右转，避开了事故。好的。所以人们能够违背梦境所显示的内容。
这是一首歌吗？我之前从未听说过。是的。是的。
14:51 我不知道这是否算作一条规则。你知道的，一旦梦境形成了，你就是注定要遭遇的，事情就那样发生了。是的。我的意思是，大多数人说，哦，你被警告了，但是对此无能为力。这就像，你正在预见未来。未来的事并非可变的，但这个家伙似乎证明了它是可变的。是的。非常有趣。
那么，好吧。你现在在治疗实践中多久使用一次这种梦境分析呢？
每天和我的客户一起。
15:19 通常情况下，当我进行敲击技术时，我们再次寻找过去可能存在的恶意软件程序，以便从硬盘上卸载。有时候我们不确定哪个是优先级最高的。我会问他们，你做过关于这个的梦吗？一旦他们分享了梦境，很明显就需要调整治疗的重点。这个方法效果出奇地好。
有趣。你在治疗实践中还融入了哪些其他不寻常的方法或事物呢？
15:48 我想我有时候也会使用，实际上在我的工作坊中我是这么做的，我会结合四种或五种不同的技巧，试图看看在短时间内人们能做多少不同的事情。这些方法都是基于科学证据的。第一种是冥想。我让他们只做五分钟的冥想。
16:11 但我通常进行一种悖论式的冥想。如果他们有什么担忧，比如对某物的恐惧，我会让他们使用一个咒语。这与那相反，即“我很安全”。所以他们在担心恐惧。他们害怕某些东西，但我让他们一遍又一遍地说“我很安全”，持续五分钟。这样做的作用是唤起所有他们害怕的东西。
16:29 就像你知道你在假装否认你的恐惧，通过说“我很安全”来掩饰。你只是设法挖掘出所有你害怕的东西，我告诉他们这样做很好， 因为他们说“我很安全”，尽管他们知道他们并不安全，所以他们坐在那里一直说“我很安全”，“我很安全”，所有的反对意见都来了，“哦不，我不安全，绝对不行，外面是个恐怖的世界”，“我有这么多恐惧”，
16:54 所以我告诉他们就处理这些问题花五分钟，然后要写下来五分钟，然后我就让他们拿出一张纸，这叫做表达性写作，与写日记不同。写日记，像是在记录梦境一样，想记录下来。保持这个状态永远，然后想回去反思一下富有表现力的写作。得到一张纸，写上五分钟，尽量填满一页纸的一边。使用尽可能多的情感词汇来描述所有的恐惧和所担心的事情。
17:19 在那五分钟结束时，停下来回顾所写的内容，找出最心烦意乱的地方。然后我们以此作为情绪聚焦疗法（EFT）环节的重点，因为这就是让你最困扰的问题。这是触发你的程序，也是我们希望解决的。一旦消除了这个程序，通常的做法是销毁写下的纸张。要么将它切碎，要么烧毁，因为这样做的目的是将这些情绪从身体中释放出去。但我没有这么做。
17:46 直到10年前我上了这门课，我才意识到有100多篇研究论文证明，仅仅通过这样做就能改善健康状况。
这太疯狂了。你认为为什么会这样呢？
因为实际上在做些把这些情绪从身体里释放出来。谈话疗法的一个问题在于，大多数人寻求心理学家或治疗师进行认知行为疗法，这被证明不如一些以某种方式涉及身体的疗法有效。
18:14 轻拍涉及到身体。有一些不同的躯体疗法，手臂运动、脱敏、再处理、眼动脱敏和再加工（EMDR）。就像这种身体动物运动，可能还有大脑活动降低，或许这就是为什么它具有如此强大的影响力，因为大脑中那个带有恐惧症等东西的永久部分，以及战斗或逃跑反应，无比强大。实际上，仅仅是写字这个动作就是一种身体行为。它能将其从你的身体、从你的头脑中释放出来。而在这方面，本领域著名的心理学家之一，贝塞尔·范德科尔克，大约10年前写了一本非常了不起的书，叫做《身体记住一切》。就像这类作品的圣经。他基本上是说，可以做所有的谈话疗法，但如果身体仍然相信它，那就无关紧要。
那么你在问，所以你的身体不能用言语和你交流，但这是你与身体交流的一种方式，而不必真的说，“blah blah blah”地对你说话？这挺有趣的。荣格和弗洛伊德，我会把潜意识谈论成你意识中某个抽象的东西。我开始相信潜意识实际上生活在你的身体里。这些记忆储存在你的身体里。而要想真正治愈，你需要接触到储存在你身体里的记忆。储存在你的身体里并释放它们。而且我实际上对“情感”这个词玩了一个有趣的文字游戏。就针灸经络而言，有神秘的气或能量流经你的经络。
如果把“情感”这个词拆成两个词，说E代表运动中的能量，那么情感应该是通过你的身体流动的。如果卡住了，那就是出现症状的时候。任何症状，你坚持的任何情绪最终都会在某个时刻产生一个症状。我把这些阻碍看作是需要释放的东西，需要继续前进的东西。有一首Rumi的诗我们经常在正念课程中使用。叫做《客栈》。
20:07 它说，作为人类就像是一个客栈。你永远不知道下一个来你家拜访的会是谁。可能是美妙的喜悦，可怕的悲伤，一个糟糕的小偷。
20:18 欢迎他们全部进来，因为你不知道他们接下来为你准备什么。也许小偷会把你的家洗劫一空，第二天新的喜悦就会到来。但整个诗歌的点睛之笔是诗的名字叫做《客栈》。他们都可以来，但他们不能久留。
有趣。那么需要多少疗程呢？每个人的情况都不同，平均来说，一个人需要多少疗程才能体验到缓解，这对他们来说是什么样的？
20:45 这因人而异。有些取决于他们有多少童年创伤经历。有一个叫“不良童年经历研究”。这可能是医学史上最重要的研究，大多数医生都不知道。
21:04 有17,000名凯撒永久医疗中心的患者填写了一份关于18岁之前虐待和忽视经历的10项问卷。他们发现，这预测了他们晚年患慢性疾病的可能性。他们的分数超过四分。
21:15 他们在18岁之前遭遇过可怕的事情。他们的预期寿命会减少十年。结果发现这是迄今为止发现的最大的慢性疾病风险因素，超越吸烟、超越饮酒，还有多少不良的童年经历。所以如果遇到一个人，在和他合作，他有很多不良经历，ACE分数很高，那么将需要做更多的工作来帮助他们治愈。但如果有一个人，他有快乐的童年，ACE分数为零或一，然后遭遇了一次严重的车祸。
21:42 这可能是需要从体内清除的东西。实际上，我用EFT处理的第一个案例是，我在为杜克大学本科生上一门压力管理课。一个学生在秋季假期后进来，说：“哦天哪，我全身都起了荨麻疹。痒死了。我去学生健康中心，他们给我开了些苯海拉明。那缓解了瘙痒，但现在我太迷糊了没法学习。所以我吃了苯海拉明，全身的荨麻疹又回来了。”
22:07 我前一天刚学会了这个技巧。我说：“有新的方法我们可以尝试。”我在新泽西州收费公路上遭遇了一场恐怖的车祸，在雨中打转，撞上了一根电线杆。安全气囊弹了出来，我没受伤，但我真的很震惊，从那以后我就一直有荨麻疹。然后我说：“哦，也许这是留在皮肤下面的一些东西。身体在坚持恐惧。”我说：“我们来试试这个技巧吧。”我只有一张一页的备忘单。我只是在读说明书。
22:33 上面写着，就造一个能描述经历的短语。她说，一场可怕的车祸，用零到十的等级来衡量。有多严重？现在有多严重？这叫做主观痛苦单位。10分代表一生中最糟糕的情况。零分，完全没有。结果她说，大概是六分。但她看起来，在六分的程度上更受震动。
22:52 我说，再加些词让它变得更糟。她说，哦，想到我可能会死于车祸，好可怕。我给打了个八分。于是我说，好吧，我们就按指示来，开始按摩。你就在脸上和胸部的每个点轻敲五到六下。然后一遍又一遍地重复那个短语。她就在身体的一侧做，再沿着另一侧做。两分钟后，她的分数从八降到了四分。我心想，这可能起作用了。然后我看向那张表，说，你可以重复同样的过程，或者改变把短语换成可能更糟的不同方面。
23:19 我看到比在车里差点丧命还糟糕的是什么。我问，有更糟糕的吗？她说，嗯，我把爸爸的车撞报废了。我问，那算多高？那可是11分。于是她轻敲，我对爸爸的车感到内疚，对他的车感到内疚。然后我就一路降到大概两分。她明显放松了下来。我说，拿着这张纸回家，在两天后的下一节课之前，不要吃任何药，每次觉得需要时就轻拍。两天后她回来了，满脸笑容。她说，不吃药了，荨麻疹也不见了，每次我感到有点痒就轻拍。
23:45 然后她说，我在其他所有车祸中都试过轻拍。我心想，什么？我不知道她还有过其他车祸，但她发现这对这一次有效。我们回去处理所有那些其他的车祸吧。她的内在英雄接管了一切，告诉她该怎么做，因为创伤往往会以贯穿你一生的主题出现。
24:01 如果一次严重的车祸让你从此失去驾驶信心，会发生什么？那么，你会吸引另一次车祸，直到你回去修复第一次的创伤。她就是这么做的。同样的事情也适用于你。如果你有一个虐待你的父亲，最终你可能会遇到一个虐待你的男友。你妈妈嫁给了一个有虐待倾向的人，不断重复，直到你最终回去治愈那个源于童年不良经历的根源。
24:21 那么，你见过多少次轻拍（情感释放技巧EFT）是有效的呢？
嗯，那种情况，我们称之为“一分钟奇迹”。就做一次，症状就消失了。我也遇到过几次这样的情况。我还帮助过其他人，我通常会给男孩做四次的疗程，算是一个套餐。通常到第四次疗程结束时，他们就能取得某种程度的成功。
帮助起来最难的人是谁，你为什么认为你经历过这种情况？
24:44 愿意做这种工作的女性比男性多。但我得说，最大的突破是在退伍军人群体中，因为他们完全持怀疑态度。当这个方法对他们有效时，天哪，效果显著。实际上，当我终于开设私人辅导诊所时，我最初的对象是一名越南战争时期的医务兵，40年前的创伤性越南经历。他的妻子是心理治疗师，把他推荐给我，说他有一些未解决的愤怒问题，是战争中遗留下来的。看看能做些什么。所以他就来到我的办公室。
25:12 他坐在椅子上，就像个商人一样。他正在二婚。他有份工作。他不是无家可归的退伍军人。我问，你想解决什么问题？他说，我不能告诉你。我心想，好吧。幸运的是，我们有一种技术，叫做电影技术。只需简单地问某人，如果你有一整套DVD电影收藏，最差的电影是什么？哦，《地狱》。
25:33 我整个人都笼罩在这上面。当然，我的第一反应是，我不知道自己是否想去看。但然后你让他像逐帧播放那样操作电影放映机。所以放映机以慢动作播放，他按照自己的节奏来。如果有什么内容让他感到痛苦，他就会停止放映机，然后进行一些轻拍。
25:50 所以他的分数不会升得太高，因为一些患有严重创伤后应激障碍的人，他们的分数会爆表，他们会变得非常恐慌。所以我们只是逐渐引导他们。他说，他在越南和最好的朋友们一起待在战壕里。一枚迫击炮弹进来，基本上爆炸了，把他的三个伙伴炸得粉碎。他是医疗兵，试图救他们，但他们都死了。
26:11 他背负着这些记忆40年。我们基本上是在他说“好了”之后才开始轻轻敲击的，当有了那部电影看过之后，可以再看一遍电影，我们会再次通过敲击的方式过一遍，直到紧张感大幅降低，直到能连贯地讲述整个过程而紧张感不升反降。
26:28 然后到了最后，我通常会转向更积极、具有催眠效果的暗示。我说，好的，现在我们把那些从你脑子里清除出去，你对那三个家伙最喜欢的回忆是什么？他开始滔滔不绝地说出他们所有的好品质。他泪流满面。他正在经历一种情感体验。就像他和那三个伙计又回到了战壕里。半小时后，他的愤怒和悲痛完全消失了。观看这一切真是太神奇了。
26:52 这真的很酷。我当时就想，哇。我是最早一批与之合作的越战老兵之一。就像是，我不知道会发生什么。有时候拥有初学者的心态是有用的。但后来我意识到，等等，我们还有半小时的疗程时间。你还想做什么？他说，他们把我从前线撤下来，送回基地。
27:07 被送到停尸房，我在那里把尸体碎片重新拼凑起来。那真是一次大升级。于是我们开始治疗，完成了这次疗程。我在想，天哪，希望我没有打开什么潘多拉的盒子。他说，一周后跟我联系，然后再回来预约。只要确保在恢复。一周后他回来，我问，你好吗？他说，我问他有没有越南战争时的噩梦或闪回。他说没有。
我认为我们处理了最大的问题。的确如此，如果处理了真正重大的问题，那些小问题就会迎刃而解。甚至不需要去理它们。所以我在想，好的，我们进行了整整一个疗程。你现在想解决什么问题呢？他说，我爸爸是军队里的将军。我心想，哇，那可真够呛。于是他开始治疗。我爸爸是个将军。我爸爸是个严厉的将军。他只用了半个小时就完成了。我说，好吧，我们还有半个小时。你现在还想解决什么问题？我的老板是个混蛋。他谈到了自己40年来的经历……他说，是的，我的治疗师。
于是他完成了治疗，结束了。他回家了。他的妻子给他发邮件说，你到底做了什么？他说，他变得判若两人。
哦，这真的太酷了。它是否适用于任何年龄段？比如，你有没有给过八岁、十岁、十二岁的未成年人做过这个治疗？
孩子们本来就容易受到暗示，进入催眠状态。所以如果使用恰当的语言，他们很容易配合治疗。还有更简单的方法，对孩子来说甚至比轻拍他们的脸和胸膛还要简单。
28:24 我们只是让人交叉双臂放在胸前，然后用相反的手轻拍上臂。这叫做蝴蝶拍击法。
28:28 这很棒。对孩子效果很好。就像一种抚慰的动作。轻拍了很多经络穴位。这在世界各地的自然灾害人道主义救援工作中都有应用。
这叫做蝴蝶拍击法。你有没有试着自己做过？
哦，当然了。这是一种自我护理技巧。你可以试试。我建议每天在最糟糕的事情发生后进行一次。就像说，让我们把那些都拍走。这样你就不会在明天早上醒来时还有这种感觉。这也是晚上入睡的好方法。
28:55 如果你的思绪在反复想某件事，你就轻拍它，说：“我的思绪在飞速运转，我永远也睡不着。”哦，我知道。明天会精疲力竭。然后最后，你会开始转变，告诉自己：“我正在放下那件事”，“我要入睡了”，“我在打哈欠”，然后你就真的睡着了。所以这是一个相当有效的方法。当问谁不适合这种方法时，我通常不会帮助那些上瘾的人，比如酗酒者、吸烟者。虽然这种方法已经被用于那些人，但如果打算帮助某人，需要接受成瘾疗法的特殊培训。
为什么？如果你让一个酗酒者进行拍击，会发生什么？
29:24 或许这会引发相反的效果，行为变得不那么糟糕。或许这能增强他们的青春活力。他们往往有很多心理负担。他们的不良童年经历分数往往相当高。他们上瘾的一个原因是他们在掩盖自小就背负的所有创伤。因此，需要一种全面的方法。我不是在寻找一个针对瘾君子的快速解决方案。
29:52 如果你不知道是什么问题，但只是试图去想，可又不知道。然后你进行一些敲击疗法。即使你不知道是什么问题，还能起作用吗？
嗯，我自己的例子是，在我第一次婚姻期间，我的左肩患有20多年的慢性疼痛，直到离婚后才开始逐渐消失。那是我意识到很多肩膀疼痛与压抑的愤怒有关的顿悟时刻。它就像卡在肩膀上，把那个负担扛在肩上。
30:11 所以现在我的左肩一点也不疼了。然后几十年前，我因为一些政治方面的愤怒开始右肩疼痛，几个月后也没有消失。现如今，我很少会感到肩膀疼痛，
30:24 我每周都会做大量的引体向上和俯卧撑，完全没有肩膀疼痛。但如果我一旦感到肩膀疼痛，我会假设我对某件事很生气。然后我会开始只敲击我的肩膀，因为我的肩膀真的很生气。我的肩膀真的很生气。我不知道是因为什么。我的肩膀真的很生气。有时候就在敲击的过程中，某些事情就会浮现出来。这就是我生气的原因。然后我会释放那些负面情绪，我的肩膀就会感觉好很多。
30:45 这就像……当你唤起一个记忆或者你唤不起一个记忆，但你能识别出问题在你身体的哪个部位紧缩，你轻敲那个部位而不是仅仅轻敲穴位时，这有多重要？
我通常会问人们，如果他们正在处理某个事件，效果会更好。
31:01 还有情感和他们身体上感受到的地方。这三者真正使其最为有效。但有时只有其中的两样，就只能依靠上帝了。我给人留下的最重要的信息是，所有症状都应该被视为来自灵魂的神圣信息。
31:17 就像在西医中，症状只是无论代价如何都要被压制的东西。有副作用的药物、手术程序等等，只是让它消失。我把这种做法称为“射击信息法”。而如果你假设身上的每一个症状都是生活中有些不对劲、偏离了正轨的信号，而这个症状只是在试图引导你并做出纠正，这样你最终就能与你的症状成为朋友。因为现在当我感到肩膀疼痛时，它只是告诉我我很生气。
31:45 然后我就处理它。所以我的肩膀不是我的盟友。以前，我因为不知道原因而恨了它20年。
太神奇了。你有没有见过对某人不起作用？如果是的话，为什么？
我认为有些人只是想得到一片药。我有一个朋友是心脏病学家，在综合医学领域工作。他说，当有人因胸痛或其他心脏问题来找他时，他会花10分钟和他们交谈，评估他们的情况，然后说：“你只是想服用一片药，对吗？” “是的。” 他们开了处方后就走了。
32:11 对另一个人可能会说：“你真的遭受着严重的情感心痛，是吗？”然后对方会说：“是的，你说得对。实际上从来没有人真正承认这一点。”他说：“你为什么不报名参加正念冥想课程，做一些放松技巧，写一些表达性文字呢？你生活中正在经历一次重大的转变。这个症状正在触发这一切。这就是两条不同的道路。”
32:34 好的。如果有一种额外的方法，也许还有一个，但在梦境分析和情绪聚焦疗法之间，似乎你帮助了很多人。还有没有其他非常有效的方法呢？
真正被低估的是，我把情绪聚焦疗法和催眠结合起来使用，但必须意识到，情绪聚焦疗法、冥想、表达性写作、催眠都有成百上千的研究页面。
32:54 然而，催眠在医学界几乎被忽视，特别是在像我所从事的正畸学领域，人们会说：“哦，这是魔鬼的工作。”而实际上是可以使用的最强大的技术之一。我不得不说，我经常用来帮助正在手术的人，
33:11 因为研究一次又一次地表明，你进入手术的方式往往就是你走出来的样子。所以，如果你让自己进入一种自我催眠的状态，对手术之后自己醒来时想要的感觉进行所有积极的暗示，那么当你从手术中走出来、醒来时，这些事情就会开始发生。如果你带着恐惧进去，手术时你能做的最糟糕的事情就是注意医生在给你宣读知情同意书时的一举一动。这是你在手术前能读到的世界上最糟糕的东西。他说，你可能会出血，可能会感染，可能会死亡。这些都是非常可怕的建议，但是你要去手术室了。
如果是位技艺娴熟的外科医生，他会说，好的，你可能会出血，但我们会非常小心地监测你的血液。这样就不会发生那种情况。你可能会感染，但我们正在给你使用抗生素。这绝对不会成为问题。而且，人们很少会因此死亡。所以，你否定了所有这些。如果你在催眠状态下说，“但是在我说了第一件事之后”，这就否定了它。就像是在说，“哦，是的，你可能会出血，但那永远不会发生。”
所以删除了那个第一句话。所以你真正想要的，是那些你真的想在手术前考虑的事情，思考一下你醒来时想要感觉如何。你想要感到舒适。而真正重要的是，你想要排尿，想要吃东西，想要排便。如果你在手术前想着，“我一旦醒来就必须去排尿，去排便，还会渴望我最喜欢的食物”，你会做得非常出色。
那些都只是些中性的东西。“哦，我会感到饿。”我马上就能感受到。我马上就会去做。哦，大多数人手术后会醒来，会感到恶心和呕吐。但如果你告诉自己你会饿着肚子醒来，想吃你最喜欢的食物，你就会这么做。事情比这还要复杂得多。我不知道睡眠方面的情况如何。但你将会得到六个小时。你可能会说，哦天哪，我只能睡六个小时。醒来时感觉糟糕透了。或者你可以说，我需要获得你小时数的五分之一。有些人只需极少量就能应付。有些人需要很多。
34:52 但对我那位接受过手术的催眠老师来说，那次是重大手术，没有使用麻醉。如果不是看了视频，我是不会相信的。但在她生下一个孩子时，她经历了紧急剖宫产。她告诉麻醉师：“看，我对麻醉非常敏感。不要给我太多。”但他们忽略了她的要求，结果她进了重症监护病房，差点丧命。所以，他们不得不迅速缝合她的伤口，在她腹部留下一个大疝气，这个疝气总是不断地鼓出来，
35:16 她需要修复它。她害怕去接受麻醉和手术。所以她找到了匹兹堡的一位催眠师和一位催眠治疗师来训练她自己如何做。然后她不得不四处寻找曾对她进行无麻醉手术的外科医生。以及愿意往她胳膊上扎针却不给她任何东西的麻醉师。
35:33 于是她就这么做了。当她走进来时，她给自己下了催眠暗示，说她会从胸部到膝盖以下失去感觉。但她做的关键一件事是说，所有的血液都会离开我的腹部，流到别处。所以这不算浪费。她还说了，因为我想学东西，我想感受刀，但不想感到任何疼痛。
35:54 当她开始视频时，我心想，她一直在杜克大学医学院的学生面前展示这个，简直让他们震惊。我以为她会进入深度恍惚状态，就像失去意识一样。但她一直清醒地和麻醉师闲聊。与此同时，外科医生在她腹部切了一个五英寸长的伤口，却没有给她任何局部麻醉药。外科医生问：“你确定能这样做一个小时吗？”她说，她只是施了个“绝地心灵术”。
36:17 哦，不会那么久的。果然，因为她把所有的血液都输送走了，外科医生根本不需要处理血液。整个半小时都没有出血。他说，事后他意识到自己在烧灼血管和清理血迹上花了多少时间。这次他不需要那么做了。手术结束时，纱布垫上只有一滴血。手术进行到一半时，我的朋友霍莉，我的老师说：“有东西在戳我的肋骨。好像很疼。”他说：“你在说什么？”他的手伸进她的腹部。他说：“不。”她说：“是的，你检查过了。有点烦人。”于是他走过去，哦，我正倚靠在金属牵开器上，正在拉开她的伤口以便他能进行手术。他重新调整了牵开器，并说，人们通常不会抱怨这个，你知道的。然后他完成了手术。
37:00 手术缝合了她的伤口，她说，好的。他离开了房间。洗手护士就在那里，病房里的洗手护士也是。洗手护士试图清理她，掀开无菌布单，擦掉聚维酮碘。到这时，霍莉已经打开了之前关闭的疼痛开关。
37:16 她又打开了出血功能和其他一切。这样伤口就能按预期愈合。她只开了足够的疼痛感，以便如果有问题，她会知道。于是护士开始清洁切口周围。霍莉发出了一声血曲线和尖叫。护士完全慌了神。她说，怎么了？我说，我把疼痛开关打开了。护士简直不敢相信。我就像是在说，你刚刚经历了大手术，现在却抱怨我清洁你的伤口。
37:40 当它像那样有效时，真是令人难以置信地强大。霍莉是第一个，她是第一个说她的大多数客户不想通过手术来解决问题的。他们只想自信地进去，然后快速康复地出来。
那么其他人可以在哪里小试身手，评估梦疗、情感聚焦疗法或其他疗法是否对他们有帮助呢？
他们可以查看我的网站，是LarryBurke.com。
38:01 我还有很多博客。可以从我的二十多个YouTube视频中挑选，比如准备癌症手术、减肥、应对不同类型的疼痛，鼻窦炎，各种不同的东西。
38:15 所以，只需在我的YouTube视频上查看，那些都是免费的视频。我还有很多博客，还有两篇我在首页发布的TEDx演讲。是的，所以很多内容，如果每个月我发送一份带有新热点话题和新YouTube视频的时事通讯，他们还可以订阅每月新闻通讯。如果有人想要个人指导，我会进行20分钟的免费电话沟通，只是了解一下我们合作是否有意义。
38:38 之后，我会进行一次80分钟的Zoom会议，关于治疗，也就是拍击疗法。这样就可以使用了。嗯，这非常好。谢谢你来参加播客。这真的很有趣，所以我鼓励大家去查看。我知道我会去的。这是一次很棒的对话。谢谢。
Edit:2025.05.07