https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1d64y1b7Vq/
on the back of a tiger episode one deep 在老虎插曲的背后 深入了解
dive
oh hi ray its Brad and Jeremy hi how are 哦，嗨，它的布拉德和杰里米 嗨，你好吗
you I'm very good yeah so we were just
wondering if you could generally
describe the association induction
hypothesis in the most basic way and and
why it's so important so she a ssin 如此重要，所以她是罪人
refers to the relation between two 指的是两个带电粒子之间的关系
charged particles two electric negative 两个带电的负
and positive particles when you dissolve 粒子和正粒子 当你将
sodium chloride in water 氯化钠溶解在水中时，
they dissociate more completely but more 它们离解得更彻底，但
highly diluted they are so when they're 稀释度更高，因此当它们
concentrated they tend to get pushed 浓缩时，它们往往会被推
into association more often and the idea 入关联 更常见的
of the association in the cell is that 是，细胞中关联的想法是
you have proteins very close to each ，蛋白质彼此非常接近，
other with lots of charges predominantly 带有大量电荷，主要是
negative charges and so they're their 负电荷，因此它们是它们的
home held in a relatively stable 家，彼此之间保持相对稳定的
relationship to each other although 关系，尽管
everything is liquid and being 一切都是液体并且存在
concentrated negative charges it's the 浓缩负电荷
opposite of a diluted solution and so 与稀释溶液相反，因此
you automatically have a high degree of
association between charged particles 带电部分之间自动具有高度关联 颗粒带
oppositely charged so just the fact that 相反电荷，所以事实上，
you have a substance with an 你有一种本质上带有
intrinsically high negative charge means 高负电荷的物质
that you're going to pull positively 意味着你要把带
charged particles out of the surrounding 正电的粒子从周围
environment and it works 环境中拉
just as well for clay or water softening 出来，它对粘土或水软化
gel or hair the lots of conventional 凝胶或头发也很有效 的传统
biologists have simply preferred to be 生物学家只是更愿意对
ignorant about about the physics of
solid substances such as clay water 固体物质（例如粘土
softeners and hair but if you thoroughly 软水剂和头发）的物理学一无所知，但是如果您彻底
wash a substance such as hair and then 清洗头发等物质，然后
dip it in the serum or a solution 将其浸入血清或
containing both sodium and potassium 含有钠和钾
ions for example the hair will 离子的溶液中， 例如，头发会
selectively take up potassium ions out 选择性地从溶液中吸收钾离子，
of solution relatively excluding sodium
ions and that's something that the 而不是钠离子，这
mainstream biologists for several 是几
decades have simply not wanted to look 十年来主流生物学家根本不想看到
at that they they say that there's a 的，他们说有一种
semi permeable barrier doing at letting 半渗透屏障可以
in one kind of I am preferably the 让一种 我最好是
potassium which has a lower surface of 钾，它的水的下表面
water attached water molecules and that 附着了水分子，并且
whole idea of a semi permeable barrier 整个 大约 80 年来，半透屏障
membrane has been discredited for Fernau 膜的想法已经被 Fernau
about 80 years thoroughly and repeatedly 彻底和反复地抹黑了，
but they just won't give it up they 但他们只是不会放弃，他们
insist that there are little motors at 坚持认为表面上几乎没有马达，
the surface accounting for the 这是由于
distribution unequal distribution long 分布不均的原因很久
ago Gilbert Ling 以前吉尔伯特·林 (Gilbert Ling)
showed that if you block the energy 表明 如果你阻断
systems of a cell it still just like ear 一个细胞的能量系统，它仍然就像
hair being completely dead will 耳毛完全死了一样会
selectively associate potassium Lane 选择性地关联钾 Lane
demonstrated that in the state where the 证明，在
cell is predominantly associated with 细胞主要与
potassium the using isotopes 钾关联的状态下，使用同位素
he showed that sodium is constantly 他表明钠不断
entering the cell but being excluded it 进入细胞，但 排除它
goes in but it goes out even faster so 进入但它消失得更快所以
it's a matter of it's analogous to the 这
solubility of something AAS Trojan about 类似于AAS木马的溶解度关于
the time Lane was working on history was 莱恩研究历史的时间
working on the idea of different 正在研究控制属性本身的不同溶解度的想法
solubilities governing the properties
themselves and he showed that for ，他证明了
example he could demonstrate that cells 例如 他可以证明细胞
are not as monitors which if there's a 不是监视器，如果有
semipermeable membrane they have to 半透膜 e 它们必须
behave as an honest monitor like like an 像鸡蛋膜一样表现得像一个诚实的监视器 与
egg membrane it's a very thick substance 细胞膜的概念相比，它是一种非常厚的物质
compared to the idea of a cell membrane ，
but you do dialysis membrane for example 但是你做透析膜，例如
made from an intestine it's a not at all 由肠道制成，它
analogous to the hypothetical cell 与假设的细胞膜
membrane
intrusion demonstrated that urea for 侵入完全不同 例如，证明尿素
example will change the water content of 会改变细胞的水含量，
a cell but it is free to enter the cell 但它可以自由进入细胞，
so it isn't it isn't pulling water out 因此它不是
as an osmotic effect but 作为渗透效应将水拉出，
it enters the cell freely and simply 而是自由进入细胞并简单地
changes the properties of the protein 改变细胞的性质 蛋白质
system so that less water is mountian by 系统，以便细胞蛋白质减少水量，
the cell proteins so for as the 因此作为
follow-up or one follow-up is why does 后续或一次后续行动的原因是
does any of this matter like why does it 为什么这些问题中的任何一个都很重要，例如为什么
matter that the the membrane pumps and 膜泵和
channel's theory may be incorrect and 通道的理论可能不正确
that Gilbert's theory or something like 以及为什么重要 吉尔伯特的理论或类似的
it may be more correct how does that 东西可能更正确，这如何
impact well the the induction part of 影响假设的诱导部分
the hypothesis is that everything that 是所有粘附在蛋白质上的东西都会
sticks to the protein affects the 影响蛋白质的
electrical properties of the protein and 电特性
at the PI's literally to everything 在 PI 的字面上，
other ions hormones metabolites and so 其他离子激素代谢物
on carbon dioxide is an acid which 等所有物质都是一种酸，它
affects the acidity of the protein and 会影响蛋白质的酸度，
so of its effects its potassium sodium 因此
affinity once you see that the system as 一旦您看到该
a cooperative organized system is acting 系统作为一个协作有组织的系统，它就会影响它的钾钠亲和力
as a different phase the whole substance 不同的阶段 细胞的整个物质
of the cell is a coordinated cooperative 是一个协调的合作
phase system and everything you do to 阶段系统，你
that phase is going to change its 对该阶段所做的一切都会改变它的
properties and the membrane the basic 特性和膜
assumption of the foolish membrane 愚蠢的膜
hypothesis is that cells are controlled 假设的基本假设是细胞
by that semipermeable or pumping 受半透性或泵
property of the surface membrane because 性的控制 表面膜，
things the ions are equally randomly 因为离子均匀随机
distributed on either side to the 分布在
membrane so you need 膜的两侧，所以
thing to account for why their non 你需要解释为什么它们的非
randomly distributed attrition thought 随机分布磨损被认为
as a simple matter of of solubility but 是溶解度的简单问题，
the Association induction shows that the 但关联归纳表明，
specifically the ions are governed by 离子是受具体控制的 受
the electrical properties of the 每一种蛋白质的电特性
proteins which are influenced by
everything and so basically all of the 影响 hing 等基本上所有
mistaken medical treatment are the 错误的医学治疗都是
result of had reasoning from from the 从细胞内部
doctrine of a random solution on the 随机解的学说推理的结果
inside of the cell randomness is 随机性
essential to the working of the
equations that are used to explain cell 对于用于解释细胞
potential and ionic distribution and one 电位和离子分布的方程的工作至关重要
of my professors for example a Sydney 我的一位教授，例如悉尼
Bernhardt spend his whole career and a ·伯恩哈特 (Sydney Bernhardt) 度过了他的整个职业生涯，
few years after I left graduate school 在我离开研究生院几年后，
he pretty much finished what it had been 他几乎完成了一直在
working on showing that even the 努力的工作，表明即使是
glycolytic mechanism converting glucose 将葡萄糖转化
to pyruvic acid or lactic acid he showed 为丙酮酸或乳酸的糖酵解机制，他也
that just by careful measurement of the 表明 通过仔细测量
substrate and the proteins 底物和蛋白质，
he showed that the assumption of prevent 他表明防止随机性的假设是
randomness which is the basis for all of
the standard enzyme substrate 所有标准酶底物
interactions they were all based on 相互作用的基础，它们都是基于
statistical randomness he showed that 统计随机性的，他表明
there is no possible room for
application of those equations because 这些方程没有可能的应用空间，因为
the substrate is at about 底物
at the same concentration as insane 的浓度与疯狂的基本相同，
basically one substrate molecule per one 基本上是一种底物分子 le 每个
enzyme so the substrate has to be 酶，所以底物必须
essentially handled directly from one 基本上直接从一种
protein to another rather than randomly 蛋白质处理到另一种蛋白质，而不是随机
diffusing so all of the equations 扩散，所以
assuming random diffusion are irrelevant 假设随机扩散的所有方程都
to biochemistry that part seems really 与生物化学无关，这部分
important sort of culturally could you 在文化上似乎非常重要，你
talk to us a little bit more about what 能和我们谈谈吗 更多关于
it means basically to build everything 将一切建立
on top of the wrong assumptions you know 在错误假设之上基本上意味着
everything when I talk to cardiologists 什么 当我与心脏病学家
or pulmonologists or any of the 或肺病学家或
specialties they build important 他们建立重要
therapeutic approaches an assumption of 治疗方法的任何专业交谈时，你知道一切
a standard explanation of how enzymes 假设标准解释酶
work how hormones act on cells and so on 如何工作 激素如何作用于细胞 等等
and if you've followed their reasoning ，如果你遵循他们的推理，
you can connect the membrane theory and 你可以将膜理论
the randomness theory to specific 和随机性理论与
mistakes they make in their treatment 他们在治疗中犯的具体错误联系起来
for example many most thyroid doctors ，例如，许多甲状腺医生
think of a thyroid hormone as increasing 认为甲状腺激素会增加
excitability rather than decreasing
excitability of cells and carbon dioxide 细胞的兴奋性而不是降低细胞的兴奋性，
metabolism in cells is usually 180 细胞中的二氧化碳代谢通常为 180
degrees misinterpreted because they 度 解释是因为他们
think of the equations of bicarbonate 想到了碳酸氢盐的方程式，
rather than the intrinsically acidic 而不是
modifying effects from the carbon
dioxide itself acting on the cell 二氧化碳本身对细胞
structure could we do like a 结构产生的内在酸性修饰作用
experiment as if let's say we're now
like living in a world where doctors and
scientists biochemists have decided to 已经决定
accept the a aih or at least that as a 接受 aih 或至少作为一个
starting point how would you see that 起点，你如何看待
changing how medicine where research is 改变医学研究的方式
done they would start realizing that ，他们将开始
right at the center of cell structure 意识到在细胞结构和功能的中心，
and function the energy process
consisting of the production of carbon 由碳的产生组成的能量过程
dioxide from fuel and oxygen that is the 来自燃料和氧气的二氧化碳，这是
essential acidifying process that
governs the structure of the cell the 控制细胞结构的基本酸化过程 细胞质的
potassium favoring properties of the 钾有利于特性
cytoplasm and therefore the structure of ，因此细胞质的
the cytoplasm and the readiness to work 结构以及工作
and be stimulated and so it leads to for 和受到刺激的准备，因此它导致
example seeing interpreting mania as a 例如看到解释躁狂症 作为
deficiency of cellular energy epilepsy 细胞能量不足的癫痫症
is a deficiency of cellular energy when 是当事情发生时细胞能量不足
things are overactive it's because they 过度活跃是因为它们
don't have the energizing structural 没有
effects of oxidative metabolism all the 从氧化
way to carbon dioxide and so muscle 代谢到二氧化碳的激励结构效应，因此肌肉
cramps heart hardening of the heart 痉挛 心脏变硬 心肌
muscle
losing contractive force nerve nerve 失去收缩力 神经神经
symptoms great variety of nerve symptoms 症状 各种各样的神经症状
kidney malfunction every system you look 肾脏功能障碍 你看到的每个系统
at the approach to treating it comes 处理它的方法
down to optimizing the energy which 归结为优化
regulates the
the Phin selectivity and fuel 调节 Phin 选择性和燃料
selectivity do you think that it would 选择性的能量，你认为它还会继续这个实验吗，它
also continuing this experiment
how would it trickle down scientist sort 会如何渗透到
of using the or considering the AI h as 科学家使用或考虑 AI h
the the hypothesis to pharmaceuticals 作为假设 制药业
and pharmaceutical industry drugs would 和制药业 药物
those be different and how research is 会有所不同吗 以及
done on them be different in treating 如何对它们进行研究 在治疗
some chronic diseases the drug research 某些慢性疾病方面会有所不同 到目前为止，药物研究
industry is so far unrelated to reality 行业与现实
has it many other things could abolish 无关 是否还有许多其他事情可以从
essentially our whole drug industry 根本上废除我们的整个制药业，
because it's corrupt and based on and 因为它是腐败和基于的
nothing but but selling substitute 只是销售
products for basically old herbal and b 的替代产品 100 年前可用的非常古老的草药和
biological drugs that were available 100 生物药物
years ago could substitute for our 可以替代
multi-billion our trillion dollar drug 我们数十亿美元的制药
industry do you do you think considering 业，你认为
the a h we're taking it seriously could 考虑到我们正在认真对待它可能会
affect some chronic diseases people 影响一些慢性病
suffering with them like Alzheimer's 患者，例如阿尔茨海默氏
were cancer or heart disease yeah 症吗？ 癌症或心脏病是
exactly the same as epilepsy heart 的与癫痫
disease kidney disease lung disease and 心脏病肾病肺病等完全相同
and so on
Gilbert lling one of his articles or 吉尔伯特几年前他的一篇文章或
books several years ago was cancer won't 书籍是癌症不会
be soft along the present line of 按照目前的
thinking it's if you don't know Gilbert 思维方式软弱如果你不这样做 彻底了解吉尔伯特·
Lange's work thoroughly it's hard to 兰格 (Gilbert Lange) 的工作 很难
understand the idiocy behind 理解
contemporary last eighty years of 近 80 年来当代
biological and medical thinking it's a 生物学和医学思想背后的白痴 这是
type of insanity that is reinforced by 一种精神错乱，
the culture the fact that it can make 文化强化了它可以赚取
vast profits 巨额利润
another smaller important piece to me 对我来说另一个较小的重要部分
seems that you get a different 似乎你明白了
understanding of how life works that at 对生活如何运作的不同理解，
the smallest level all you really need 在最小的层面上，你真正需要
is this the association of of water and 的是wa的关联 特尔和
proteins and yeah fuel fuel oxygen and 蛋白质，是的燃料燃料氧气和
sugar or the equivalent and Sydney faxes 糖或等效物和悉尼传真
demonstration that huh 证明，嗯，
you know acid foot put on a hot rock 你知道放在热石上的酸脚
will spontaneously polymerize in the 会自发地聚合在
protein like molecules randomness 蛋白质中，就像分子一样随机性
doesn't occur anywhere in the origin of 不会发生在生命起源的任何地方
life the whole assumption of randomness 整个假设
associated with Darwinian approach Cyndi 与达尔文方法相关的随机性 Cyndi
Fox showed that random mixture of amino Fox 表明，氨基酸的随机混合物在蛋白质
acids polymerizes spontaneously in the 中自发聚合，
protein like elongated molecules that if 就像拉长的分子一样，如果
you put water on that hot proto protein 你把水放在热的原始蛋白质
substance it produces very symmetrical 物质上，它会产生非常对称的
cell like particles about the size of a 细胞状颗粒，大小与
big bacterium spontaneously forming 自发形成的大细菌差不多
these spheres microspheres and these the 这些球体 微球体
the spontaneously formed proteins have 这些自发形成的蛋白质具有
enzyme like functions and he showed that 类似酶的功能 他表明
precursors of the nucleic acids could be 核酸的前体可以
polymerized by the spontaneously formed 由自发形成的
amino acids it's just a chemical 氨基酸聚合 这只是一种化学
physical way of showing that the 物理方式表明
assumption of randomness is basically a 随机性假设基本上是一种
crazy religious doctrine that was built 疯狂的宗教 建立
in two hundred years ago in the 在两百年内的教义 多年前，在
conventional science thinking for 传统的科学思维中，出于
religious reasons such as the big 宗教原因，例如大
they had a creation theory and so they 他们有一个创造论，因此他们
fitted their physics to it the 将他们的物理学与它相
thermodynamic thinking likewise was
fitted to associate the idea that God 适应，热力学思维同样适合将上帝创造宇宙的想法联系在一起
created a universe in that it has been ，因为它已经在
running down and everything ever since 运行 从那以后，一切都
tending toward entropy with no basis 趋向于熵，
other than religious assumptions that 除了宗教假设之外没有其他依据，
the alternative it isn't necessarily an 即它不一定是
anti-christian idea but it's associated 反基督教的想法，但
with Hinduism is that the universe is 与印度教有关的是，宇宙是有
alive and maybe growing and that they 生命的，并且可能正在增长，而且它们
have randomness in the universe tends to 在宇宙中具有随机性。
be decreasing rather than increasing if 是减少而不是增加，如果
anything let's talk in terms of like 有的话让我们用
metaphors or analogy I liked how you
you said the that pumps and channels is 比喻或类比的
like the they're being motors or engines 方式
on the surface of the cell or another
something that that Pollak had said 来谈谈 曾经说过
pumps and channels sort of like doggy 泵和通道有点像狗
doors that only led in certain size dogs 门，只能引导特定大小的狗，
what would be an analogy and I have to 这将是一个类比，我必须
have an attendant to have push the wrong 拥有 一个服务员把错误的
dog out right what would be an analogy 狗推出了正确
for the aih in that sense then um say 的在这个意义上对 aih 的类比然后说
you have a thermostat and a food growing 你有一个恒温器和
inside the house if you have the right 在房子里生长的食物，如果你有
kind of temperature and food the right 合适的温度和食物，合适的
dog will come in dogs at Kent can't 狗会来 例如，肯特的狗不能
digest beans for example might be 消化豆类可能会被
excluded if you're only growing beans in 排除在外，如果你只在房子里种植豆类，
the house it's a matter of hostility not 这是敌意的问题，而
not selectivity in the sense of a doggy 不是狗门意义上的选择性，
door yeah I like that and then sort of 是的，我喜欢那样，然后
going 去
there and this might be a hard task but 那里 这可能是一项艰巨的任务，
in just like a couple sentences could 但就像几句话，
you say how the aih differs from the 你能说出 aih 与
pumps and channels very it if you look 泵和通道
at nature hair clay and anything that is
a selective iron ion preferring
substance you simply see that that's a 的区别吗？
natural properties of nature for example 自然的自然属性，例如
soil prefers to associate with potassium 土壤更喜欢与钾联系在一起
and the sodium washes out and gets into ，钠会被冲走并
the ocean so if you wonder why my soil 进入海洋，所以如果你想知道为什么我的土壤
contains potassium and and the ocean is 含有钾而海洋
full of sodium you have to start 充满了钠，你必须开始
thinking why is a cell full of potassium 瘦 为什么一个细胞充满钾
and the serum full of sodium simply a 而血清充满钠只是一种
physical preference the structure and 物理偏好 固体物质的结构和
electrical properties of the solid 电
matter the solidity being anchored in 特性 固定在
space is governs the tendency to 空间中的固体支配着联系的
associate more fully dilution changes 倾向 更充分 稀释 改变
the tendency to associate and and 联系和和相关的倾向
associated things the given a solid 给定固体
matrix potassium throughout the world's 基质的东西 全世界
soil ten shaprut I prefer to associate 土壤中的钾 十 shaprut 我更喜欢将
with potassium how did you first hear of 钾与钾联系起来 你是怎么第一次
the aih what were you doing you know 听说 aih 你在做什么你知道
research wives are scientifically I had 研究妻子是科学的 我
just enrolled in graduate building I was 刚刚进入研究生院 我
taking my first course in nerve biology 正在学习我的第一门课程 在神经生物学方面
and as the lectures went on by about the ，随着讲座的进行大约
fourth week I decided 第四周，我
that the professor giving the standard 认为给出标准线的教授
line was a crackpot and I he would 是个疯子，每次他向我们推荐他的
refers to papers in the 50s and 40s and 论文时，他都会参考 50 年代、40 年代和
30s 30 年代
each time he referred us to a paper that 的论文。
he said was was the origin of the 说
thinking that he was expounding on I 是他所阐述的想法的起源，我
would look through the journal and see 会翻阅杂志，
what people were saying at the same time 看看人们在同一时间在说什么
and I realized that most of the other 我和我意识到大多数其他
articles found better than the ones he 文章都比
was referring to us and so as weeks went 他指给我们的文章更好，因此随着时间的流逝
by I read more and more about the ，我阅读了越来越多的关于
history look looking at the articles he 历史的文章，看看他
would refer to us and I would read the 会提到我们的文章，我会阅读
whole rest of the journal and I started 整篇文章 杂志的其余部分，我
seeing Gilbert Ling's
work around 1950 and and on I realized 在 1950 年左右开始看到 Gilbert Ling 的作品
that he was solving all of the problems ，后来我意识到他正在解决 1968
that were evident in what was being 年所教内容中显而易见的所有问题，
taught in 1968 so I wrote to him and 所以我写信给他并
outlines the problems that he had 概述了他显然在南方遇到的问题
obviously south and said how is this 并说
these people are going on about this 这些人对这个膜调节是怎么回事
membrane regulation and his answer was ，他的回答是
you just don't understand science 你只是不了解科学
science is about money and prestige and 科学是关于金钱、声望和
power has nothing to do with 权力与
understanding reality accurately and 准确理解现实无关，
would you say that without adjusting our 你会在不调整我们的理解的情况下这么说吗？
understanding of the basic model that 基本模型的
kind of standstill they'll never get any 那种停顿 他们永远不会再
further I'm just more more important 进一步了 我只是更重要的
drugs and and techniques but never any 药物和技术 但
progress against preventing and curing 在预防和治疗他方面从来没有任何进展
heart disease kidney disease 艺术病肾病
lung disease brain diseases and insulin 肺病脑病和胰岛素
why does it seem like Gilbert has been 为什么吉尔伯特似乎
the only one who has offered this 是唯一一个提供这种
complete alternate model of the cell it 完整的细胞替代模型的人
seems like he's just this lone voice in 似乎他只是荒野中唯一的
the wilderness and now that he's passed 声音现在他已经
on will this all be forgotten there all 过去了 所有人都被遗忘了
along there have been people who were 一直以来，有些人
just less diligent and energetic in 在工作中不够勤奋和精力充沛
doing the work Trojan is a basic book on Trojan 是一本关于吸附的基础书籍，
sorption it is something everyone should 每个人都应该
read it will revolutionize your thinking 阅读它，它将
as much as Gilbert Lang's it just 像吉尔伯特·朗 (Gilbert Lang) 一样彻底改变你的思维方式，
happens that Ling covered the all of the 恰好玲涵盖了 除了你写给他的一封信和你收到的回复之外
essential arguments that theme and brain ，主题和大脑的
people have offered their bad solutions 人们提供了他们糟糕的解决
to and does it in a very elegant way 方案的所有基本论点，并以非常优雅的方式解决
besides that one letter that you wrote
to him and that you got a reply from did 了
you two ever chat or were exchanged more 你们两个是否曾经聊天或交换过更多信息
letters or chat on the phone I you know 信件或电话聊天 我你知道
wrote to him a couple of times and 给他写过几次信 和
talked to him one sort of meeting in New 他谈过一次在纽约的会议
York I notice he I think was in in the 我注意到他我认为他在
90s I asked him a question about carbon 90 年代 我问 给他提了一个关于二氧化碳的问题
dioxides and he said I enjoyed your ，他说我很喜欢你的
letters as if it had been a regular 来信，好像这是一件很平常的
thing but he kept a good file of who had 事情，但他保存了一份很好的档案，清楚地记录了谁
written to him obviously is there a 给他写的信
chance that Gilbert's wrong in the aih ，吉尔伯特在 aih 中的错误是否有可能
is wrong or some parts of it well in the 是错误的，或者某些部分是错误的
1970s I wrote him and asked him if he 1970 年代我写信给他，问
didn't think that Michael Pollan is 他是否认为 Michael Pollan
adsorption isotherm would be more 吸附等温线比我认为他正在使用
appropriate for explaining cells than
the sort of elaborate 的那种精心制作的
Londyn Langmuir theory i think he was Londyn Langmuir 理论更适合解释细胞
using and he said no that this one works ，他说不 一个工作
alright but if i was starting out where 正常，但如果我从他开始的地方
he started I would have used polanyi's 开始，我会使用波兰尼的
isotherm because it it gives an image of 等温线，因为它给出了
a long-range potential that he takes a 一个长期潜力的形象，他需要
lot of mass to arrive at worth it to 大量的质量才能达到值得
pull on the isotherm would give you a 拉动等温线会给你
sketchy approach to it right from the 从一开始就采用粗略的方法
start yeah one thing that we have 是的，我们
noticed in this journey is that I don't 在这次旅程中注意到的一件事是，我不
know if it's the way that Dilbert breaks 知道这是 Dilbert 分解事情的方式，
things down or if it's just that the 还是只是
hypothesis is so complicated but it 假设如此复杂，但
seems like he hasn't done a great job of 似乎我 就像他没有很好地
communicating it to people especially 将它传达给人们，尤其
lay people I the membrane 3 is so easy 是非专业人士 I 膜 3
for lay people to understand it I don't 对于非专业人士
think it is easy for anyone to 来说很容易理解我认为任何人都不容易
understand it itself there are only a 理解它本身只有
few membranes that will make it work 几个膜 这将使它在
that resemble in anyways a hypothetical 任何情况下都类似于假设的
membrane and the phospholipid bilayer 膜和磷脂双层
membrane it all kinds of facts 膜 它所有的事实都
contradicted so intuitively it's 与直觉相矛盾
impossible to have any substance to it 不可能有任何物质
and conceive it though the way it stains 并设想它 尽管它的染色方式
indicates that it can't possibly be what 表明它不可能是什么
the hypothesis says it is nothing 假设说没有什么
supports it except that their assertion 支持它，除了他们
that it's they're doing something do you 断言他们正在做某事你
feel though that was that a sort of 觉得虽然这是
failure on Gilbert's part of 吉尔伯特在
communicating or writing about his 交流或撰写他的
theory that 理论方面的一种失败，
you know so many people just sort of 你知道很多人只是有点
couldn't get through it or understand it 不能 没有通过它或理解它
and no I didn't think it was all heard ，不，我不认为
her to see what he was doing I didn't 她看到他在做什么，我开始时根本
have any background in school biology at 没有任何学校生物学背景，
all when I started but it was since I 但这很重要 因为我
didn't have that background it was 没有那个背景，很
immediately obvious that the whole 明显整个
membrane pump thing was was funny and 膜泵的事情很有趣，
impossible to believe it's only this 难以置信，这只是
sort of religious bit background of 这种假设的宗教位背景，
assumptions it's all built on 它全部建立在
assumptions that are automatically 自动
proclaimed the random selection of genes 宣布随机选择基因的假设
for example in Darwinism totally counter 上 达尔文主义中的例子完全与
empirical it it's all a religious 经验相反，这完全是宗教
dysfunctions one thing I wanted to ask 功能障碍，我想问的一件事
was because I know that you keep up with 是因为我知道你跟上
a lot of different spheres of research
that are going on and new studies that 正在进行的许多不同领域的研究和即将出现的新研究，
are coming out have you noticed that any 你有没有注意到任何
aih like theories were experiments have 哎，就像理论是正在进行的实验，这些实验
been going on that are getting some more 正在得到一些更
mainstream traction or anything you've 主流的牵引力，或者你所
seen that you're sort of hopeful about a 看到的任何你
guy in Germany at Alma University Andre 对德国阿尔玛大学安德烈大学的人抱有希望的人，
I think it is summer Somm er is doing 我认为现在是夏天 Sommer 正在
the organized water in cells approach 做有组织的水 在细胞方法
and at MIT in in physics 和麻省理工学院物理学方面
Jeremy England is taking the approach Jeremy England 采取的方法
that order builds itself spontaneously 是
given the full of energy that approach 在充满能量的情况下自发建立秩序 at 方法
is basically denying the this 200 year 基本上否定了这个长达 200 年
long assumption that matter is an inert 的假设，即物质是一种惰性
or randomly moving something the the 或随机移动的东西
idea that order is intrinsic to matter ，物质固有的顺序的想法
is is a big assumption that has to be 是一个必须改变的重要假设，
changed you know the idea that an atom 你知道
is identical at all points of time and 原子完全相同的想法
everywhere in every context is a purely 在任何情况下的时间点和任何地方都是纯粹的
platonic idealist doctrine no no 柏拉图唯心主义学说，没有任何
evidence whatsoever it is saying that 证据表明
the elements of matter are nothing but a 物质的元素只不过是一种
mathematical change changeless as thing 数学变化，
until they change and the change is only 在它们发生变化之前不变，并且这种变化只能
described by a randomness describing 通过描述统计方法的随机性来描述
statistical approach even like nerd 即使像书呆子
would would have a better grasp of 一样会更好地掌握
reality in seeing that everything 现实，因为一切都
depends on its relationship to other 取决于它与其他
things every atom is slightly different 事物的关系每个原子都略有不同，
depending on where and when ideas the 这取决于想法的地点和时间，
inductive effect says that every atom is 归纳效应表明每个原子都
sensitive to its surroundings and that 对其周围环境敏感，
sort of thing 诸如此类
once you have the membrane assumption 一旦你有了细胞
that things move randomly inside of 内事物随机移动的膜假设，
cells even Leibniz recognition would 即使莱布尼茨也能识别
turn on the whole whole approach
do you have any hope whatsoever that 你有没有希望
something like the AI age or the age 像人工智能时代或时代这样的事情
will eventually one day be taken 最终有一天会被
seriously yeah if the next election for 认真对待，如果下一次
example could theoretically overthrow 选举理论上可以
the whole drug medical establishment and 推翻整个药物医疗机构并
established by legislation the 通过立法建立
insistence on being empirical and 坚持 关于
rational in everything had done in in 在研究中所做的一切都是经验性和理性的，
research who do you think would do that 你认为理论上谁会这样做
theoretically Bernie Sanders could say 伯尼桑德斯可以说
look at all of this criminal waste of 看看所有这些犯罪
resources on phony medical approaches 资源浪费在
for any military approaches there would 任何军事方法的虚假医疗方法上，
be roughly 20 trillion dollars a year 每年大约会产生 20 万亿美元
left to do something intelligent that 留下来做一些聪明的事情，这
would be amazing 将是非常棒的，
well thank you so much ray yeah we 非常感谢您，是的，我们
really appreciate your time 非常感谢您的时间
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