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姿态矫正 Jesse Jutkowitz

Fix Major Postural Issues in 10 minutes w/ Dr Jesse Jutkowitz I Rejuvenate Podcast Ep. 106

播客介绍与嘉宾: 主持人 Melwyn Robinson 在 Rejuvenate 播客中欢迎听众,特别是那些经历疼痛(如背痛、颈痛)、希望改善睡眠、减轻压力、优化健康的人,以及对帮助他人解决这些问题的执业者。他介绍本期嘉宾是 Jesse Jakowicz 医生(倾向于被称作 Jesse),他是“高级生物结构矫正”(Advanced Biostructural Correction, ABC)系统的发现者。主持人提到自己是经朋友 Mike 强烈推荐后尝试了 ABC,并对其声称的“当场”改善姿势的效果(而非传统疗法的长期过程)印象深刻,尽管他也理解这并非完全矫正且最初认为效果是暂时的(Jesse 纠正说效果并非暂时,但也不是一次性完全矫正)。

Jesse 的背景与 ABC 的发现: Jesse 分享了他最初想成为医学博士,但在医院做志愿者时,目睹了医疗(除抗生素、外科手术外)对很多疾病的局限性,以及与医生护士交流后感到失望,最终放弃了学医。后来在朋友建议下进入整脊学院(Chiropractic School),初次被调整(Atlas 调整)后,困扰他多年的胃痛消失了,这让他觉得很神奇。但在学习过程中,他发现整脊理论和实践存在很多不一致和缺乏逻辑的地方(例如推拉身体方向不同效果却被说成一样),并对主流整脊方法的效果和可预测性产生怀疑。他认为很多整脊师只是在“撞大运”。 他随后接触到“脊柱压力学”(Spinal Column Stressology),由一位整脊师和一位航空工程师 Clint Fulkerson 合作研究,该理论强调:

  1. 身体是单一同步功能单位: 身体各部分相互关联,一个地方的问题会影响全身(他用卷脚趾影响鼻腔通气的例子说明)。
  2. 工程力学应用于身体: 通过站姿和坐姿的全脊柱 X 光片进行力学分析。Jesse 在此基础上进行了更深入的研究,测量了每个椎骨、椎间盘的角度,建立了三维模型,发现了传统方法忽视的细节。

ABC 的核心原理(“秘密”): Jesse 解释了传统“骨头错位”(Bones out of place)概念的局限性。ABC 的核心发现是:

  1. 特定方向的错位无法自愈: 当骨骼(尤其是脊椎骨)向前(相对于下方骨骼)移位时,身体没有肌肉能将其向后拉回原位。而向左、向右、向后的移位,身体是有相应肌肉可以进行自我矫正的。
  2. 代偿模式的产生: 由于无法拉回前移的骨骼,身体为了维持平衡和稳定,会在该区域及全身其他部位产生一系列的扭转、倾斜等代偿性错位。这些代偿性错位本身可能是身体有能力纠正的方向,但因为是代偿必需的,所以身体不会主动去纠正它们。
  3. “松解/回卷”(Unwinding): ABC 的目标是只矫正那些身体无法自我修复的“前移位”。一旦这些主要问题被处理,身体就不再需要那些代偿模式,会开始一个“松解/回卷”的过程,逐渐释放掉那些次级错位。这个过程有时会暂时重现旧的症状或带来不适感,但身体结构是在持续改善的。
  4. 神经问题是次要的: Jesse 认为,整脊学中强调的“神经压迫”等神经问题,主要是结构错位和软组织(如脑脊膜)张力异常导致的结果,而非根本原因。力学问题是首位的。

ABC 的实践与方法:

  1. 第一肋骨矫正法(First Rib Maneuver): 这是一个关键且可以自学(或相互帮助)的技巧。第一肋骨前移会导致肩膀内扣、胸腔塌陷,影响心肺功能。通过特定手法(用手按压锁骨内侧端,用另一手冲击)将其复位,可以立即使肩膀打开,改善呼吸和姿势,并减轻对脑干和脊髓的张力。Jesse 强调了这个动作对 COPD(慢性阻塞性肺病)患者、甚至普通人的心肺功能和背痛的潜在益处。
  2. 其他部位的矫正: ABC 针对不同部位有特定手法,如足部(某些骨骼下沉无法自愈,需工具辅助推回)、小腿腓骨前移(向后推)、脊柱前移(特定杠杆和扭转手法,非暴力推撞)。
  3. 脑(脊)膜粘连(Meningeal Adhesions): 脊柱内的脑脊膜(尤其是硬膜)在长期错位下可能发生粘连。ABC 需要识别并用特定的、不会引起疼痛的拉伸手法将其分离,这对改善顽固性姿势问题(如驼背)和某些神经症状(如痉挛)至关重要。
  4. 坐、睡、站姿的重要性:
    • 鞋子: 批评不正确的足弓支撑(会破坏足弓结构)。认为低跟鞋(半英寸到一英寸)通常比平底鞋更有利于身体力线(在平坦地面上行走时),因为平坦地面本身对足部结构就是挑战。推荐移除鞋垫,或根据身体的“崩溃侧”和“代偿侧”进行非常精细的调整。
    • 床: 强调需要非常硬的床垫(软床、记忆棉、Pillow Top 都不行),因为身体在松解过程中需要稳定的支撑。
    • 枕头: 枕头高度极其重要,需要精确匹配个体当前的脊柱状态,目标是让眼睛能够自然闭合放松。过高或过低都会导致问题(颈部僵硬、头痛或身体下段问题)。可以用毛巾叠层测试,或使用 ABC 的可调节分层枕头。他强调大多数人实际需要的枕头高度比想象中低得多。正确的枕头高度能显著改善睡眠质量,减少睡眠中不必要的移动。

ABC 的效果与应用范围:

  1. 即时与长期效果: 每次治疗后姿势会有即时改善,但这并非完全矫正。随着持续治疗和身体“松解”,结构会越来越好。Jesse 认为,普通人需要大约 2.5 年的持续治疗(频率会逐渐降低)才能达到相对稳定的、不需要常规治疗的状态。一旦达到这个状态,身体会更有韧性,即使受伤也恢复更快。
  2. 广泛的健康益处: 除了改善姿势和疼痛(背痛、颈痛、头痛、膝痛、坐骨神经痛等),ABC 对改善心肺功能(通过改善胸腔形态)、循环(雷诺氏症改善)、消化(Jesse 自己的胃痛经历)、神经系统相关问题(如多发性硬化症 MS 症状缓解、脑瘫痉挛减轻)、甚至情绪压力(身体力学压力减轻后情绪反应改善)都有积极影响。他提到有案例显示关节炎(骨性关节炎)在结构矫正后得到改善甚至软骨再生。
  3. 学习与普及: Jesse 强调 ABC 的原理和核心技术相对简单,可以在一周内教会(通过线上和线下课程),甚至没有医学背景的人(如 Amish 社区成员)也能学会并有效应用,尤其适合家庭内部互相治疗。他鼓励对身体工作感兴趣的人学习,至少学习第一肋骨矫正法。

回应疑问与总结:

  1. 执业者与患者体型差异: 小个子执业者可以治疗大个子患者,只是可能更费力或需要更多时间。
  2. 技能要求: 强调遵循精确的步骤比天赋更重要。
  3. 手术的必要性: 承认在某些情况下(如特定位置的严重椎间盘突出压迫神经、关节破坏过于严重),手术仍是必要的,ABC 无法修复所有损伤。
  4. 历史视角: 认为人类姿势问题自古就有,并非现代生活方式独有,只是古代生存压力大,有严重问题的人难以存活。他声称在研究古代文献(包括吠陀医学)时,未发现明确提出“身体无法自愈的特定方向错位”这一核心概念。
  5. 腹式呼吸: 认为腹式呼吸是胸腔功能受限时的代偿行为。当胸腔通过 ABC 矫正后能正常工作时,呼吸会更自然地以胸腔为主导,腹部运动会减少,且呼吸效率更高、更轻松(以一位歌唱老师的经历为例)。
  6. 评估演示: Jesse 对主持人进行了简短的视觉评估,指出其头部倾斜和旋转、胸廓活动受限(上胸部不动)、呼吸模式(腹部参与过多)等问题,并演示了通过转动身体暂时改善上胸部呼吸的情况,解释这与身体的扭转代偿有关。

最终建议: 鼓励听众至少尝试免费的第一肋骨矫正法和枕头(毛巾)调整法,体验其潜在效果。 强调 ABC 对整体健康(包括睡眠、激素平衡等)的长远益处。

Edit:2025.04.04

00:01

So if you experience aches and pains, back pain, neck pain, that kind of thing, if you're interested in sleeping better, if you're interested in reducing stress, if you're interested in health optimization in general, or, and this is especially true if you're a practitioner who is interested in learning better ways to help people with those kind of things, then this is an episode that you're definitely going to want to watch all the way to the end.

00:22

Hey, I'm Melwyn Robinson. This is the Rejuvenate podcast and I'm delighted today to have a guest who has a modality that seems to be extremely effective at helping to correct posture.

00:37

not just over time as a lot of other systems out there do, but pretty much straight away. So without further ado, let's get into the episode. Okay, so I'm joined today by Dr. Jesse Jakowicz, who is the discoverer of the Advanced Biostructural Correction System. You can find out more about him at abcmiracles.com, as well as this system that he's discovered. And

01:04

So, uh, Jesse or Dr. Jesse, what do you prefer? Uh, Jesse's fine. I I'm, I'm good at what I do. I don't need the formality. Okay. Um, so Jesse, you, uh, created the system that is of interest to me. And I appreciate when I reached out that you were up for doing, um, an interview to share with my audience. So there's, I have a friend called Mike who Mike Nash, uh, who,

01:29

who I've been friends with a long time. And every now and then we reach out to the other one and say, oh, I found this really cool thing, right? And it's been quite a while since either of us did it. But he reached out to me and he said, Owen, I've been doing this thing for a while called advanced biostructural correction. And it's just amazing. It's the best body work thing that I've ever come across. And he, like me, he's done a lot.

01:49

And so when Mike speaks, I listen. I was like, okay, I'm going to try it. And it was quite fun. It's like a two-hour drive there, two-hour drive back to the nearest practitioner for me. And we'll talk about that because I know there's an option of doing it, maybe not quite on yourself, but like empowering people so they don't have to go to a practitioner. So we'll talk about that. But I…

02:09

I went and I tried it and I know the, and I watched your video about it as well before I went. And the interesting claim about this, so unlike chiropractic or osteopathy or all kinds of other practitioners where I think there's like a very, what's the word, like

02:26

takes a long time before you start to feel benefits for a lot of people, or it certainly takes a long time to correct it, like an imbalance or a postural issue, let's say. With this particular modality, you kind of go in, and by the time you leave, your posture is already corrected. Now, and you can really feel it. Now, obviously, it's very temporary. Hang on. First of all, no, it's not temporary. Right.

02:53

But your posture is not completely corrected. Yeah, well, that's what I mean. Much, much better. Yeah. Well, OK. So we're not 100% corrected, but it's noticeably very different, I guess, is the point. Absolutely. Yeah.

03:05

Yeah, which is not the case of most things. Like I've done all those other modalities I talked about and more. And afterwards, it's like usually you might feel sore or something or maybe sometimes you feel relief from pain, but you don't feel like you're moving and walking and standing and all the rest of it completely differently. Right. So I thought that was quite remarkable. So that's why I invited Jesse to join us today.

03:28

And before anything, tell us a little bit about your history, your background, your journey to discovering this. Jesse, should we start with that? Well, if that's where you want to start, sure. So I wanted to be a medical doctor when I was a kid. And I worked in the Elizabeth General Hospital in Elizabeth, New Jersey.

03:49

And I'm one of these people, I read everything. I'm very science-minded. I created my own engineering background when I was in high school. Taught myself calculus and all this other stuff so I could design things. But working in the hospital, there was a time where we had to use a defibrillator on a guy. And I was just a volunteer there. I didn't work there. I wasn't a paid worker. I was a volunteer. And, you know, the candy stripers?

04:20

The girls who wear these, you know, the stripe, they volunteer there. I guess it's a U.S. thing. I'm sure most of our viewers will know it. It's a U.S. thing. But I was a guy, so they gave me a red jacket. So I was a volunteer and I was identified that way. But I read everything and I worked in the emergency room and I had all these wonderful, great experiences. And so there was a call for Code Blue, which is, you know, somebody needs the resuscitation stuff.

04:48

wherever it was, and I grabbed the thing and ran up there, and nobody followed me. So we did this whole thing, and we're setting it up, and the guy's like, we can't have a volunteer running this. I said, well, I read the manual. I know exactly what to do. It's all set up. And the guy's like, well, it's a life and death thing, so we'll do it. And they shocked the guy a couple times, and he died. And I was all despondent, and the doc said, Jess, this isn't like TV anymore.

05:19

90% of the people that we use this on die. TV, you know, and they live and everything. Real life, and he says not only that, he says if they don't have an infection where we can use antibiotics and they don't have plumbing or carpentry, which is orthopedics or vascular surgery, if they don't have something like that, we can't really do much for people. And I was like, no, this is not the profession I want.

05:50

And I interviewed a bunch of nurses and doctors and they all said the same thing. And so I quit. And I was basically aimless for about, I don't know, years. And I ended up going to college and I took pre-med because my dad wanted me to. And I took a year off and all this other stuff. And a friend of mine said, you should become a chiropractor. You can help people and you can earn a lot of money.

06:21

And I must admit that earning a lot of money was more important to me at that particular time than anything else. His dad was a veterinarian, and in those days, if a dog needed surgery or something like that, they just said, put the dog down, we'll go get another one. You know, now everybody spends tons of money on their animals and all this stuff. But that's how he ended up there.

06:41

So I knew just a little bit about chiropractic. My dad went one time when he was all bent over. We went to work for him. We came back and he was walking around and he went to a chiropractor. I had no idea what it was. He dragged me there because he knew I was interested in the doctor stuff. The guy talked to me. He might as well have been talking Greek. I had no idea what he was talking about and never thought about it again.

07:05

Until all these years later, it was summer break and this guy Ron said you should become a chiropractor. And so I looked into it and I had nothing else to do. So I said, okay.

07:15

So I went. And when you get to chiropractic school, the freshmen are the, you know, the first year students are the fodder for the junior clinic before they go into the public clinic to work on people. Right. And so they took x-rays and this and that and everything else. And the guy, again, he gave me an explanation. Might as well have been talking Greek. I had no idea what he was saying. Laid me down, got his hands here and smacked the living daylights out of me right at what's called the Atlas, the first vertebra up there.

07:44

And besides scaring the daylights out of me, I got up and I felt really strange. I had no idea. I was like, wow. All right. And I just felt strange. Okay. And it took me about two hours to realize that this stomach pain I had since I was born, I can never remember not having stomach pain. All right. It was gone.

08:06

And I went out and ate all this spicy food and all this other stuff that set me off. And, you know, if it goes in hot, it comes out hot. I had that. But, you know, then I ate all this greasy food. Nothing. My stomach just didn't bother me at all. And it was just, I was like, wow, this is really fantastic. So the first semester in Cairo school, people don't realize…

08:28

It's the same as medical school. You get the same stuff. The chiropractic education is basically the same as the medical education. The difference is the medical people go off into the chemistry and the drugs and all that stuff, and the chiros go into manipulation. So we get to the second semester, and they start talking about things. And remember, I'm an engineering-type guy and everything.

08:52

And I can still remember this first class. The guy said, it doesn't matter if you put your hand behind somebody and push down on their body or you lay them down on their belly and push down on their back. The same thing's going to happen.

09:05

And, you know, I was this was out in the Midwest in the United States, in Minnesota, where they call it Minnesota nice and all this stuff. And I'm from New York. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And I raised my hand. Guy says, yeah. I said, are you telling me if I go out in my car, I go out in the parking lot and I get in front of my car and I push and then I get behind my car and I push. It's going to go in the same direction. And he said, no, no, no. Bodies are different.

09:32

I said, Charlie, stand up. And I'll always remember this because Charlie said, don't get me involved, Jess. I said, stand up. He stood up. I pushed him this way and his body went this way. I reached around and I pulled the other way and his body went this way. I looked up at the guy and I said, no, they're not. And he said, I'll talk to you after class.

09:50

Well, the short story is after class, I walk up. He's up on this lectern. It was only about a foot or two higher than everything else. He looks down at me and he goes, don't you ever do that to me again. And storms out. All right. And I was like, and so I interviewed a lot of people and I talk with a lot of chiropractors. They don't have no idea what they're doing. All right. They're banging people around hoping that they get better. And a lot of times they do. And that's why you hear three things about chiropractors.

10:18

The guy's great. He saved my life and obviously women too. I don't know if it really works and the darn guy almost killed me. It's very inconsistent and very unpredictable. They have no idea what's going to happen with people. All right. They tell you, but they really don't know. All right. And remember, I finished the chiropractic education. All right.

10:37

Every chiropractor who is not lying to you will tell you that they get to a point where they realize, oh my God, this is just a mess. And they try and find the best method they can use for people, whatever they can decide on, and they go on this search. And I did. I got lucky. I ran into this thing called spinal column stressology, which was a chiropractor who had a friend who was an engineer who

11:05

And the engineer, whose name was Clint Fulkerson, he was an aeronautical engineer out in California. He applied an engineering study to the body. And he discovered all these things. And frankly, if they didn't start it, I would be nowhere now. All right? They did all that. What did they discover? What's the key part? All right. So the two key things I learned from him, number one is the body is a single synchronized functioning unit.

11:35

Everything works together. Now, this is an obvious thing. You're nodding your head. Everybody thinks so. You know, the knee bones connect. But they don't act like this. Chiropractors are still talking about your neck, your back, and your low back. And it's really horrible because this guy, Alf Brigg, who's a medical, he was a neurosurgeon, and he wrote a book called Adverse Mechanical Tension in the Central Nervous System. And a lot of people think it's a neurological book.

12:03

But it's actually an engineering mechanics book. If you understand engineering and mechanics, it's more of an engineering mechanics book than it is even a medical book. And so your brain and spinal cord, from your head down to your tailbone, all the way down, besides the nerves, they act like a big rubber band. They're very elastic.

12:30

And you have the meninges, which are the coverings of your brain and spinal cord. The outer layer is called dura because it's very durable. It's like an elastic band going from your tailbone to your head. All right? And so if your body gets stuck forward, that thing stretches. Like if you pin your shirt like this and you go forward, your shirt stretches over your back. That stretches everything inside your spinal column and up into your head. And forget about the nerves. That's…

12:58

The chiropractors talk about all this nerve stuff, and it's absolute baloney. It is. It is. And Greg proved that too. But the point is mechanically it happens. There's a thing. If people go on my website, which is abcmiracles.com,

13:19

It talks about the first rib maneuver. They can watch it. It's about a 20-minute video where they learn how to do the first rib maneuver, which repositions the first rib. We'll talk about that later. But immediately your shoulders go back and you're not so flexed. And it takes the tension off your brainstem or takes some tension off your brainstem and spinal cord. Okay? Okay?

13:41

and immediately your legs loosen up and everything else. So you find out you really are a single synchronized functioning unit. As a matter of fact, right now with you, breathe in and out through your nose a couple times and notice your nasal passages. All right, you got that? Mm-hmm. All right, now, don't move anything else. Just scrunch up your toes and your shoes now, and now breathe in and out through your nasal passages.

14:09

Yeah, see, even on the video, we can see it's different. Okay. You notice it's different? You can let go of your toes now, of course. Well, hang on, hang on. Let go and now breathe in and out through your nose. Yeah, you notice it's a little bit more open now? I mean, I'm watching. I can see that when you scrunch your toes, your nares actually go in a little bit.

14:33

Really? They're open. I believe you. We have video evidence. Yeah, just not aware. I'm not trying to get people to be super aware of their bodies because if your body works exactly right, what are you supposed to notice?

14:49

Yeah, nothing, yeah. But my body doesn't work exactly right, though, so. Yeah, I know, I know. All right, but anyway, so that's one thing. I get it. And by the way, everyone watching or listening at home, try it for yourself. Maybe you're more self-aware than me and you'll notice the difference. Yeah, most people will. But the issue is that that was one thing, okay? And the other thing, so when you look at like the spine, right?

15:16

You can't look at the neck, the back, and the lower back because it's all one thing and everything changes everything. So this guy Ward did sitting and standing full spine x-rays to measure out mechanical stresses. And they measured a few things, but when I came along, I measured every angle of every vertebrae and every disc, everything.

15:38

And I made these three-dimensional models, which nowadays with the computer-aided design stuff is pretty easy. But in those days, I had to do everything by hand. It's more time than you want to know about. And when you say those days, when was this? 1980. 1980, wow. And so I used to take these x-rays every two to six weeks on people as a sequence of watching their body, all right?

16:07

And so I discovered things that nobody else even dreams about looking about. All right. I have a lot of people who are very, very annoyed with me because when I retired from my practice, I sold all these x-rays. And he's like, do you realize how much research has gone into that? And the truth is, I didn't. I shouldn't have. And it's a mistake and a regret of my life. What can I tell you? Okay.

16:36

So just to go back to that, so you did this meticulous research that perhaps a lot of other people wouldn't have the patience for or the discipline or whatever, however you want to put it, persistence. What made you do that? Was it that you were so passionate or is that just what you're like? Like once you become obsessed with something, you always see it through. Like what was it about that?

16:58

Both of those things. Both. Okay, fair enough. Both of those things. You know, I'm very dedicated to helping people. I wanted to be a medical doctor, as I told you. And so I just…

17:10

But even most medical doctors are quite lazy, right? They're just like taking, you know, what they're taught. They're not doing a lot of their own investigations a lot of the time. I mean, I guess that's more of a scientist thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, look, everybody, you know, dumps on medical doctors and all this other stuff. But the guys I know are pretty dedicated. Right.

17:33

Okay, and and they're you know, they're not doing their own investigations. Some of them are well That's I guess my point right like that's covered revealed that there's a lot of just doing what they expected to do Well, that's frankly chiropractors are the same way. They're looking for a cookbook thing. That's gonna work Sure, but again, not everyone like I also I'm good friends of a medical doctor is completely different I realize there are many exceptions

17:57

Yeah, well, just because we're talking about that, chiropractors talk about having this big education and you need to have this education and all this stuff. Frankly, it's a bunch of baloney. I can teach anybody everything from the basic anatomy you need to know to all the maneuvers you need to know to figuring out what you need to treat. I can teach anybody how to do this whole thing in a week. As a matter of fact, we have an online course called

18:26

It's called ABC Online. You can find it on the website. And anybody can take this course and within a week be fixing people better than anybody imagines. All right? You've already had it done. You notice how your shoulders stay up and my shoulders are not rolled in. They're up and square. All right?

18:46

Well, one thing people are going to notice, and I'll get back to where we were before in a minute. One thing people are going to notice, if you go on the website and you watch that first rib correction video,

19:01

It's called the first rib maneuver. And you do it to people. You can't really do it to yourself. You can sort of do it to yourself. But anybody else has better leverage and can do it better on you. Immediately your shoulders will not slump forward. And you experienced this probably when you went. And the head, right? Much less of a… Everything comes back. So you know the whole thing about you have to use your muscles and everything else to have good posture and all this stuff?

19:29

It's all baloney. And you know it's true because it happened to you. As soon as you get the first time through the ABC protocol, your body pops up. And you probably looked at the website and you see people, they're over like this and they're up like this. That starts happening on day one. And so the whole idea that your posture depends on muscles is baloney. You get the body lined up properly and your body stays upright all by itself.

19:58

Well, let's get into it. So, you know, why is the posture? Why? Why is it not correct? I guess. And why is it so easy to correct? Why do most people not realize this? What is the secret? All right, let's go into it. Let's start with what is the secret? Because what is the secret answers? All right. So chiropractors, osteopaths, massage there, all these people talk about bones out of place.

20:24

Yes, yes. They'll show you the x-ray. They're like, this is twisted. This is, you know, bent, whatever. This one's, yeah, et cetera. Yes, yes. I'm with you. The whole idea of bones out of place is true. But the chiropractors abandoned it. And the reason they abandoned it, and I was there in the 70s. This guy, Charles Sawyer, was one of the chiropractors who was doing some of this research at Northwestern College of Chiropractic in St. Paul in those days.

20:52

Um, what they did is, you know, they, they get an x-ray and there'd be a curve and then the chiropractor would, they call it adjusting, push, try and push the spine back into place. And the person would tell them, oh, I feel tremendously better and they can move better and all this stuff. Then they took the x-ray expecting seeing the spine straight and it was actually more curved. All right. And there's an exact reason for that. And it's actually a good thing.

21:21

But they didn't understand it and they didn't know. And so because it didn't fit with their idea, they abandoned the whole thing and they threw it out.

21:31

And nowadays, if you go into, if you look at the chiropractic research, they call it a subluxation, which is Latin for a, a luxation is a dislocation. Sub is a little bit less than. So they call it a, you know, they call a bone that's a little bit out of place, a subluxation. And they put this mystical, magical, whatever to it. And they say it's got a neurological component. They tell you all this stuff, but it's really just mechanical.

21:57

All the nerve stuff they talk about, it's all baloney. It's just straight mechanics. All right. And so what happens is when a bone goes out of place. All right. Now, let's talk about your spine because it's easier for people to understand. It happens with your ribs. It happens with your legs. It happens. It happens lots of places. But the easiest thing for people to understand is your spine. All right.

22:23

So if you look at a skeleton or a spine, if one of the bones in the spine goes out of place to the left or the right, you've got muscles that attach from that bone to the ribs on the side and you can pull it back in place. Same thing with if it rotates and things like that, you have muscles that can correct that. If one of the bones in your spine goes backward, you have muscles that attach from the front of your spine to the back of your ribs up here.

22:49

And then down here you have what's called the psoas. It goes from the front of your spine through your pelvis and attaches to your legs. If you wanted to stand up, you couldn't stand up now without pulling your entire lower spine forward. So if the bones go out of place to the left or the right, or the bones go out of place backward, you have muscles that can pull in the direction needed to fix them.

23:12

Of the spine because you've got muscles going, I'll do it visually for people, that way, that way, and that way, right? And even on angles, but if one of those bones in your spine goes forward, okay? And people say, how can it go forward? You get hit, you're looking at your phone and all this stuff, all right? But if one of them slips forward,

23:37

What do you have back here that attaches from your spine to something behind your spine that could pull the spine back, that could pull one of those bones backward? What do you think? Nothing, yeah. You just got skin or whatever. Yeah. Now, if you talk to chiropractors and other people, they say, oh, well, all you have to do is lean backward and that'll go back into place. But it's a stupidity. And you'll have to pardon me for saying that about these people, but it is. Stupidity means can't think well, all right?

24:07

Because if you take x-rays and you do it, when you go back like this, both the bones, the spinal bones go like this. And then when you straighten up, they come back into position. Those people, and I know this because I asked them, those people are thinking if you lean backward, it goes like this and goes backward. But that assumes the lower bone is stable, but it's not.

24:30

All right. So if one of those bones goes forward, especially in your spine, but it happens like in your legs and your feet, you know, your feet are like this. How does it happen? What? How do these things go out of place if it is purely mechanical?

24:46

You get hit from behind, you bend over at just the wrong angle, you put mechanical stress on it. If you're looking down at your phone or looking down at a laptop and sitting like this, and you relax, you're going to eventually slide something forward.

25:02

Okay. Okay. So it's always mechanical. It's not like you don't think it's emotional upset or anything like that. More people than you could, than you can count when they get treated with ABC, come in and say, you know, when my wife, daughter, sister, and when they, yeah, I always used to get really upset, but since I've been getting treated here, I don't get so upset about that. Or, or, or hang on more.

25:33

You know, Doc, I can't tell you how many people have said this, right? You know, Doc, I used to take a drink after work pretty often. Two or three times a week they'd ask me and I'd go get a beer or something after work. But since I've been getting treated here, I have no desire to go get a drink after work.

25:53

What do you think is going on there? And I've talked to enough people about it. What's happening is if your body is stuck forward, it pulls on your brain stem, it twists your body, and you feel bad. And then somebody says, hey, you're a jerk, or they say something, and you get emotionally upset. And then between the body upset and the emotional upset, you go crazy. You get all emotional. But as soon as your body's not bothering you much…

26:23

you don't get so upset emotionally. So you're saying it's purely the pain and discomfort of being bent out of shape? That puts you… Look, you know, you… Are you married or have a girlfriend? All right, you know, you come home, you say, Hey, sweetie, how you doing? What do you want? All right? What's going on? All right? And if you really check it out, they're just feeling so stressed from their body. Not emotional, right?

26:51

See, they mistake mechanical stress and feeling for emotional stress and feeling. So if something happens or even if it's a hormonal thing, which could happen to men or women or whatever, you're saying that's just adding on top of it, but it's not the cause? Yes, absolutely. And a lot of, you know, there's a whole mechanism. There's a whole mechanical mechanism where your brainstem and meninges stretch and

27:18

and they come up through here, and they go right where your pituitary gland is, and it puts mechanical stress on your pituitary gland, and your pituitary gland is what puts out all the hormones. And when you put mechanical stress on the tissues, they change. It's like, you know how chiropractors talk about the pinched nerve? Yep. Well, Alf Breg proved in the 1950s, and a guy named Shoki Yamada,

27:46

who wrote in 2000, he wrote an article, anybody can find it on PubMed, about adult tethered cord syndrome. And then the references leading up to that, they proved that if you stretch a nerve to a certain point, it cannot propagate a nerve impulse. Still alive, still fine, but it can't do its job propagating a nerve impulse.

28:11

right that's why you know i i can show you more testimonials than you can talk about but this one chiropractor bruce ruderman was on disability for seven years because he couldn't close his hands left hand much worse than the right and uh it's a whole story how he ended up with me but i treated him the first time and i said okay bruce go like this and he said jess i can't

28:36

And he said, how's that possible? They did EMG, which is they put a needle in and they needle here and a needle here and they shoot an electric thing down. And if the nerve is working, it'll show up down there. But it didn't show up. And so they said the nerve was dead.

28:54

But they obviously didn't know about the fact that if it's stretched, it doesn't work. And if you take the stretch off, it immediately starts working again. Okay. All right? So when you have a pinched nerve, the only reason a pinch causes a problem, if it causes a problem, is because a local stretch of the nerve membrane where the pinch is.

29:18

Okay. And that's not my idea. That's actual physical research by Alf Breg and these other guys. But if the nerve's not transmitting, I can see how it would cause numbness or tingling or something. But how would that cause pain then? Well, it's a pain can be an absence of things too. All right. Tell me more. Well, there's different nerve fibers that do things. You know, you have nerve fibers that if they're not firing, you have pain.

29:49

Okay. It's a whole, it's a whole. Right. Okay. Yep. Fair enough. That's the short, that's the short story. Okay. All right. And so just to go back then. So with it, like my understanding of what the chiropractor saying these days, I guess is, you know, it's so important to get the spine, I guess, not straight, but like corrected because the central nervous system is kind of dependent on it. And when the spine's all twisted up,

30:13

then the central nervous system doesn't work as well. And that's where a person has stress and all these issues. So it seems to me you're kind of saying the same thing. So how is it different? It's got nothing to do with the nerves. It's just mechanical stress. Look, let me if I was standing there. All right. I poke you in the side. All right. It bothers you.

30:34

Okay, I do this all the time. I keep my finger there and I say, pick up your right hand. You pick up your right hand. And I say, okay, you put down your hand, you put down your hand. I'm still poking you. And I say, does this feel as bothersome as it did before? And they say, no. All right. But when you take away your hand, it's tremendous relief. So you get used to having your body be in lousy shape. You can get used to everything.

31:00

All right. Your body accommodates and you can get used to anything, even though it could be bothering the daylight. I mean, it could be really, really stressful and bothering you. But if it happens all the time, you know, it's like a sound. Yeah. All of a sudden it stops and you're like, oh, well, oh, I didn't even realize that was bothering me. Same type of thing with mechanical stress and everything else. All right. OK. So it's like a fish doesn't know what water is because it's all it's all it's ever known. So that's how people are with this.

31:30

like discomfort or whatever that's what you're saying but it is but it's still bothering them underneath the surface absolutely absolutely anyway so so the the other thing is now that was a great tangent because i think that's really the crux of what you're saying you know one of the things this podcast does is investigate like the root cause of premature aging and health issues right so you're saying from your perspective that's what it is right it's biostructural

31:56

There are plenty of people who build this as an anti-aging thing because wrinkles go away in your face and all this other stuff. Now, let's go back to the secret, all right? So we talked about bones out of place, and we talked about in the spine, particularly if it goes right or left, you can fix it. If it goes backward, you can fix it. If it goes forward, you can't fix it, all right?

32:19

So the entire secret of why bodies go funky, and we're not talking about infections, there are microorganisms, if you get an infection…

32:28

Go get antibiotics. Otherwise, dig a hole. You're going to go. But these days, most people are dying of chronic conditions, right? Not infections. Yeah. Yeah. But in fact, and then cancer and things like that, whatever the chemistry is, it's there. Doing ABC and fixing somebody's structure is not going to fix that. Right. Diabetes, diabetes, something like that. ABC is not going to fix that. Right. But heart problems, different problems.

32:55

If you look in the 60s, they have what's called straight back syndrome research, and they showed that changes in chest shape are the major cause of most heart problems, but they didn't know how to change chest shape. Well, you can go on abcmiracles.com, learn the first rib maneuver, and people have COPD. You know what that is? Yep. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder where they can't breathe and their heart doesn't. We used to call it chronic heart failure or congestive heart failure. Now they've got a fancy acronym for it.

33:24

But you do the first rib maneuver on these people, and they're blue around the lips and their fingers are a little bit blue. You do the first rib maneuver on these people, and all of a sudden, five, ten minutes later, they're all pinked up. And why is that? Because all of a sudden their chest… See, when your chest collapses forward, when that first rib collapses forward, and you have one on each side, your shoulders roll in, and…

33:52

The top one-third of your chest collapses on the middle one-third of your chest. And that's where the major part of your heart and lungs are. So besides not being able to breathe well because that's collapsed, you have your heart in there, and if your chest is collapsed, you can't open up. It can be pumping fine, but it can't open up enough.

34:13

Do you have anybody else there with you? No, sorry. Oh, okay. I was going to say, we can't do it with you because you've already had this done. And I can already see your shoulders are back. The other person in the house is my wife, who's also had it done. But she's gone to bed. Yeah, so your shoulders are back. Okay. So it wouldn't have… But I've done this with other people where I teach them how to do the first rib maneuver on themselves. Okay.

34:40

All right. And immediately their shoulders, which were like this, are back and they could breathe better. People can go ahead and do this and they'll notice it immediately. But immediately your body pops up. Do you want to tell them then? Do you want to do that? Can you tell them now? All right. So here you do it. All right. So put your left hand flat on the left side of your chest.

35:03

All right. Take your middle and index finger. All right. And put it on the same hand. Yeah. But no, leave your fingers flat. Take the middle and index finger and put it on the big lump where your collarbone. Viewers, even listeners, follow along. Try this. OK. Absolutely. All right. Now pull your shirt down so they can see a little bit. All right. You see this big lump there?

35:27

Right here, right, you know, you got this in the middle and just to the side. Yeah, that's that big lump. Feel that big lump?

35:35

The fibroids? No, not fibroids. No, no, no. It's the bone. Put your finger on the top of your sternum right in here. You'll feel there's like a U. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah. All right. Now, if you move over to either side, you feel this big lump. Yeah, yeah. All right. So that lump is the end of your collarbone. Yep. What you're going to do is put your left hand down like this and put those two fingers on your collarbone right where it attaches to the sternum.

36:00

Now, push that upward and backward as hard as you can and hold it there. While you're holding it there, you're going to take this big part of your thumb here. It's called the thenar eminence, this thing. And what you're going to do is you're going to put that on your fingernails. On your fingernails. Now, you're going to hit that backward, but don't hit down. Pull it down a little bit and hit up. Okay. All right? And hit right on your fingernails.

36:32

Now, don't just hit your fingers. Hit through like you're trying to hit the wall behind you. I'm a bit concerned about the headphone, but I think they get the idea. Yeah, like that. But harder. But as hard as you can, you're saying. Hard as you can. And then you switch hands and do the other side. Mm-hmm. All right?

36:50

Excellent. And you also have a demo of that on your website, right? Absolutely. That's the free thing. Because people's bodies pop up and they have pictures where it's like this and then the person's up, nobody believes it. They think the people are like this and they're working to stand up straight. They don't realize they're relaxed completely in all the pictures.

37:11

Yeah, because you can force yourself to that straight position, right? But it doesn't last very long. So this is like natural. I do agree. Actually, you can't force yourself. You can force yourself into extension backwards, but you can't get yourself into the right position. Maybe not exactly right. But what I mean is you can make yourself stand up straight, right? Like soldiers learn to do. Yeah, you can force yourself upright, but you have to work at it. You do the first rib maneuver and immediately your shoulder, see, I'm, all right, let your body slump.

37:43

See, you've been treated this way so your shoulders don't come forward. Other people let their body slump and they end up, you know, their head and their shoulders come forward, right? Yeah, that didn't occur to me when you said slump, yeah. I think, like, I still have a sense sometimes my shoulders go up a bit and then I kind of let it down, but I don't go forward, yeah. That's right. Down is different than forward, right? Mechanically and everything else is different. All right, so the key is, all right,

38:08

If you correct the bones that are out of place… That the body cannot self-correct… Because there's no muscles pulling in the direction needed… The other ones… Will reposition for the most part. Now… So bones out of place in the direction your body can't self-correct… Is the secret. If you know that datum… If you know that piece of information… And you know how to use it… You can fix every body that walks in your door. Alright? Now… The important thing is…

38:40

What about the bones that are out of place that the body can self-correct because it does have muscles pulling in the direction needed, but the body doesn't do it?

38:50

Yep. So if you talk to physical therapists or chiropractors or medical, anybody, they say, well, the nerve is weak or the muscles weak. They give you some excuse. And these excuses have been around since before the time of the Greeks. I've heard the muscles weak a lot, right? That's why physios get you to do specific exercises to strengthen certain muscle groups and all that. Yeah, yeah. That's right. But none of this stuff ever works. If you get strengthened, you can compensate better, but it doesn't correct anything.

39:20

But the whole answer, you know, you hear chiropractors say the adjustment didn't hold and things like that. The entire answer to that is the reason the body leaves those things out of place is because they're out of place as part of the compensation pattern to keep you upright because of the loss of balance and the adverse forces from the things that are out of place that the body cannot self-correct.

39:50

Okay, it makes sense of the theory. So just to repeat that, make sure I've understood it. There's certain things your body can't correct itself, which is specifically with these…

39:59

vertebrae being forward and so as a result of that all kinds of other twists pulling the side pulling in all kinds of other directions can happen and that's why you can see an x-ray of your spine and the vertebrae is all scoliosis or whatever it's all twisted but you're saying all of that is basically because of that root thing about um the vertebrae being forward is that correct that well see the short story is this all right so if these are your vertebrae and that's forward all right toward the camera so if one of those bones goes forward

40:29

you have no muscles that can pull it backward. So you lose bone leverage and you start to collapse at that spot. You don't like this. Now you don't have any muscles that can pull it backward, but you do have muscles that can pull in other directions. So you twist it, you turn it, you tilt it, you bend it, you do whatever you can to try and stabilize that area. Now if you think about that, that creates yet another misalignment. And you have to compensate for that one elsewhere.

41:00

And then that creates another one. So you never have a bone out of place that the body can't self-correct in a compensation. You have a bone out of place in a direction the body can't self-correct and a whole pattern throughout your body to try and make up for that. And then you get another one on top of that and another one on top of that and you get all this thing twisted up. And remember, I'm an engineer and I made all these mathematical models and all this other stuff.

41:29

If you look at it, it's almost exactly the same as a rubber band being twisted up. And then if you twist the rubber band up enough, you can't twist it anymore without it doubling on itself. And then it doubles on itself and triples on itself and all this other stuff. Well, that's the same thing that happens. And if you talk to people, they say, well, it can't be like that because your spine can't go in 360 degrees. And the answer is the force can.

41:57

So your spine starts to twist and your joints between the vertebrae lock up and you can't go any further, but there's still the need to do this. And so your body kinks over to the side. All right. And when it kinks over to the side, then it keeps going or it goes in another direction or whatever it has to happen. All right.

42:19

So it's literally… And remember, I took these x-rays standing and sitting full spine. All right? And the reason is standing, believe it or not… I don't know what's going on here. Standing, believe it or not, is your best compensating position. All right? Sitting…

42:38

is still weight-bearing, right? Because you're still here. But because your pelvis is going the other way, it disengages. It's a whole mechanical thing with the way the meninges are pulled. But sitting is weight-bearing without your feet and legs or pelvis being able to hold you. All right? And so your spine decompensates. And then standing is your body compensating and holding you up the best.

43:03

If you look on my website, there's, I think the second video down is how and why ABC works the way it does. All right, the first 15 minutes talk about the bone out of place thing.

43:15

And after that, I have explanations. And I actually have sitting and standing full spine x-rays that show the differences and all this other stuff that are there. And it's actually very easy to understand. All right? So what happens is this is all twisted up. All right? As you get treated, and you probably noticed this, your body is much more stable.

43:40

You come in and you're all unstable. You get treated this way and your body's more stable. As you're more stable, you can let go of these compensations. And so your body starts, we call it unwinding, because if you look at the x-rays, you can see it unwinds like a big spring or a big rubber band. And so this, what happens is it goes toward the injury position.

44:04

All right, you know, the bone went out of place and you compensated. So as you don't need to compensate as hard, you let go and it goes toward the injury position. And lots of people say, well, yeah, but how come it doesn't go back into place? Well, the reason it's out of place is because you don't have any muscles that can pull it back. So when these things get loose enough and they're unlocked enough, your ABC practitioner comes and just does their, you know, does the protocol and they push and this thing goes back into place.

44:34

Now, when that finally happens, you would think you get all this relief and everything else. But that's not what happens. When that bone goes into place, you're standing there. It feels like somebody put a stick up your tush. And you're like, what am I doing up here? Did you ever notice that? I mean, sometimes you get treated and you're like,

44:53

What am I doing? You know, it's like somebody put a stick up your butt and you're like, I'm really up. What am I doing up here? I wouldn't have that thought, but I definitely like, wow, yeah, I'm a lot like straighter. And yeah, well, it didn't feel like a mental relief. It is like slightly odd. Yes.

45:08

Yeah, well, that's because how long have you been getting treated this way? Not long, you know, a few times. Yeah, it takes quite a while for something to unwind enough so you can fix it. Remember, you've got lots of these things. Sure. Right? But the day it happens with one of these things, you'll say, oh, that's what he was talking about. Okay. Because it will feel that way. All right? And you're just upright. Right.

45:30

Okay. And, you know, after an hour of being upright like that, you're used to it and then you don't even notice it anymore. You're just on with the next part of your life. Sure.

45:41

Yeah, I think I had a minor version of that. Well, let's actually go to that because you corrected me about that right at the beginning. Like I said, that it corrects you and you said, you know, not fully, which is fine. But then I said it's temporarily and you said, no, it's not temporarily. So if it's, so why did you say that? Like, because my understanding was that, you know, the posture gets better, but if you don't, if you don't go back, it kind of, you go back to how you were before to some degree, um,

46:09

Well, actually, you don't go back to how you were before to some degree. You go somewhere else. Okay. No, no, think about it. For you to go, you know, it's like when people say I'm unwinding and we have this graph where it goes like this because depending upon the direction your body unwinds, it can actually bother you as it's getting better.

46:31

Sure. The body improvement goes like this in a straight line, but the way your symptoms go, depending upon where the unwinding is, you can feel nothing or you can feel a whole bunch. You never hurt a lot, but you feel a whole bunch and it bothers you and things like that. Just different symptoms from before, you're saying? Well, similar symptoms from before if you're unwinding, all right? But think about this.

46:56

If I correct, if there's something out of place in the direction your body can't self-correct, and I partially correct it, okay? For that thing to go out of place in the same direction, all right, like to go backwards, you'd have to have the same injury in the same place, all right, exactly to go backward. So once your body is in a better position,

47:22

If it can't hold itself up, you compensate, but you don't compensate the same. You compensate somewhere else because you're in a different position. So you don't go backwards, but you do go sideways. Okay. So in terms of maybe how you look or whatever, you're going backwards from a layperson's point of view, but you're saying technically it's different from before. Yeah.

47:44

Not technically, physically. Okay, but I'm saying in the person's experience, they're not going to notice the difference a lot of the time. That's right. Well, you know, and what happens is the funny thing that happens, if, you know, shoes, chairs, and beds are all made for people who are stuck over and twisted. As soon as you start getting ABC, your body pops up and you have to…

48:15

There's a whole sit, sleep, stand booklet. I don't know if they gave it to you or you read it, but how those things make you worse and how you have to be better. Can we give an example of one of those three?

48:30

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50:22

To get your unique genetic health reports, go to geneticinsights.co and use code REJUVENATE to get 20% off today. That's geneticinsights.co using coupon code REJUVENATE to get 20% off today. So if you look at that sit-sleep-stand booklet, it's got an x-ray picture of a foot from a podiatry book. And it shows the foot and it shows an arch going from the toes or a little bit behind the toes all the way back to the heel.

50:52

And it shows that, and it shows the middle of the arch is in the middle of the foot. And that's baloney. Okay? If, excuse me, if you look at an arch, okay, the way arches work, excuse me for a second, the way arches work, they have a keystone in the middle. And the keystone is, it's not cut rectangular, it's cut on an angle like this, and that distributes the mechanical stress out to the sides. Alright? Okay?

51:25

Well, your talus bone, and I wish I had these pictures right here. Your talus bone, all right, and I can send them to you if you want to put them in and edit them in later. But your talus bone is the keystone of your foot. And your heel bone, your calcaneus, that big heel bone, all right, that is the equivalent of the rest of your foot in the front, okay? Okay.

51:53

So if you put an arch support in the wrong place, which is the middle of the foot, it ruins your arch and everything collapses. Okay? So that's an example. So if you have those kind of shoes, they're going to be less and less suitable as you do this. Any arch support is going to make you worse. Your feet are going to bow out.

52:14

Yeah, I don't have any of those kind of shoes. I was all wearing barefoot for years and I started wearing those barefoot shoes. So this doesn't really apply to me. But my wife, I think, has special arch support shoes. So I'll mention this to her. Whoever your ABC practitioner is, go to him and say, I need you to show me the foot thing. And he should be able to show it to you. So sitting, sleeping and standing levers your body forward.

52:43

Now, you know how they say everybody's different? Yep. You're not your body. You're the thing that runs it. The spirit, the soul, the Elon, whatever you want to call yourself, that's you. And every one of us is different. But as far as bodies go, right, when I say every body, I'm talking literally, you know, every space body, not every person, right? Bodies are all pretty much the same.

53:10

Men are a little bit different than women. The pelvis is a little bit narrower. All men are basically on the same mechanical set. Some are longer legs. Some are bigger. You know, they develop differently, blah, blah. But everybody's pretty much the same mechanically. Women, same thing. All right? So what happens is…

53:32

When they say everybody's different, what makes us all different is which bone goes out of place in which order or which bones go out of place in which orders and which directions and all this. That's what makes us different, all right? So the interesting thing with this and the reason I can teach anybody how to do all this stuff in a week is you find the things that are out of place that the body cannot self-correct, all right? That you can find that day because I guarantee you're not finding them all, all right?

54:01

And then you correct them the best you can that day because I guarantee you you're not correcting them all. All right? Or you're not even correcting any one 100% on any one day unless it's already unwound and loosened up. All right? And then you wait for the body to unwind, which takes some time because you've got tissues and you've got all this stuff that's got to rework. And then you come back in.

54:26

You find the next set of things that the body can't self-correct that you can find. You correct them the best you can. You wait for the body to unwind. And as this happens, people get better and better mechanically. And I can tell you from physical experience of probably about 10,000 practitioners that we have now, but they're all over the world. So spreading 10,000 over the world, there's a lot of places that don't have any. But they will tell you that

54:56

People, you go through this for about a year and your body unwinds and you're healthier than you've ever been in your life.

55:08

And, you know, your heart's working better because your chest shape is out. Your blood flow is better because you don't have kink blood vessels. I've seen your glands. Like we focus on hormones in this podcast. And like, you know, presumably if your head's full all the time, it's squeezing your thyroid glands, you know? Yeah, they have more, you know, the chiropractors are pretty funny.

55:30

Because they have all this research about forward head posture. And they make a really big deal about it. But they can't fix it. Now I offered all this research…

55:41

Sorry, before you get into that, I feel like I'm trying to read, always trying to read my audience's mind. I think a question that's going to be in their mind is, okay, but what is actually involved, right? So you've given that example of this kind of chopping thing, but what are you, what are practitioners doing if someone wants to learn how to do this? What are they actually doing to people to fix this bone being out of place? Well, there's various manipulations you do, depending upon where.

56:06

Like your feet. So let's make believe this is a foot. Now people think this is your wrist. They think this is your… That's not your wrist. That's the end of your forearm. The two bones that come down here. Your wrist is two lines of four bones up here. Your wrist goes from here to here. Those are the four bones. So in your foot…

56:33

The bones from maybe about a third of the way from your ankle down and then up to where your calf bones are and then your heel bone. So these bones here, they make up your foot and your foot mechanics. If one of those bones drops downward, you don't have anything on top of your foot where you can pull the bone up.

56:58

So that's a bone out of place in a direction your body can't self-correct. Okay. And if one of those collapse, your foot collapses, your arch may collapse. That's going to twist your calf down there. That's going to twist your femur, which goes up into your hip. And that's going to create all sorts of problems. All right? So…

57:17

So you have to do manipulations to loosen up the foot and the bones. And then after that, you use a little tool to push up on those bones and get them back into their better position. In your leg, if the fibula, the little bone on the outside of your calf…

57:40

If that displace is forward, you have to get on it in a certain way and you push it backward. In the spine, if those bones are forward, you have to get your hand in the right place and you have to lever them forward. Now, it's not like a chiropractic adjustment. The chiropractors, they're almost impossible to train because they teach them to give a hard shove and all this other stuff. It's a three-dimensional twist. All right?

58:07

And we teach you what to do to get it back in place. Alright? Now besides that, you have meningeal adhesions. Alright? So in your spine, you have the meninges, which are the coverings of the spinal cord and brain. Alright? And there's three layers.

58:25

There's a thin layer against the spinal cord. There's a really thick layer. And it's called the dura matter. Very durable. It's like rubber. Okay. And people say, what do you mean? We have something that's like rubber in our bodies? And the answer is, yeah, I have to remind them that rubber is tree sap from a rubber tree.

58:44

I don't know if you've been to Malaysia. I have. They have these gigantic rubber plantations. People have these little rubber trees in their house, the house plants. These things grow huge things and you tap it like you're making maple syrup. The latex comes out and then they have to cook the latex and now you have rubber. Inside your body you have something like that.

59:06

And then between them… And is it a muscle, this manunitis? No. No, it's just hard. It's very thin tissue against the cord, very thin tissue against the column. And then between them, you have a thing called an arachnoid layer. An arachnoid is spider because when you're live and it's all attached, it's like a spider web. When the bones go out of place, these things twist and everything, and they get mushed.

59:34

Pardon these big medical terms. They get mushed together and they grow together. If you tape your fingers together, after a couple of days, the epidermis turns all white and sloughs off and then you have live skin there. And if you don't have something between them, your fingers grow together. And when you take the tape off, you can't move it. Really? Yeah. How long does it take?

01:00:01

Well, it depends on how long the skin has to… Well, let me ask you this. It's a fun experiment for the channel. I'm going to give myself webbed hands. Well, you know, you have to… Yeah. I didn't know that. You get a cut on your arm, all right? You hold it together. How long does it take to start growing together? A few days, yeah. No. If it took a few days, it would bleed constantly, all right? Oh, okay.

01:00:31

grow together well it depends how big the cut is right but yeah if it's a small one very quickly takes a couple minutes to start growing together all right so you know a lot of people um well to start yeah sorry i thought you meant to finish growing together no no not there but there's a lot of people you know um you know how they have those big soft chairs that get you all twisted up in the

01:00:55

I don't know if you've been to a movie theater, but they have all these big soft chairs and all this stuff. Oh, yes. Okay. Yep, yep. All right. I have lots of people come in. They say, you know, I went to the movies, and I was in this twisted position in this chair, and I've never been right since then. And so the bones go out of place, and this thing twists, and, you know, they're sitting there.

01:01:20

This particular guy, the movie was like three hours. I don't remember what the movie was, but it was like three hours long. And this guy got up and he's trying to stretch and he says, I've never been able to stretch and it's stuck and everything. And I put him in position and I pushed on this thing. And he's like, that was it. That was what got stuck then. You know, he knew, you know, and so this stuff happens. All right.

01:01:45

So you have to pull, if the meninges are fused, if they're grown together, we call meningeal adhesions, if they're grown together, the practitioner has to recognize that and give a big hard stretch to pull that apart. Now the interesting thing is the stretch feels how it feels and if they do it right, it never hurts.

01:02:09

Okay, anybody who's, you know, they might be listening to this, oh, I had my guy do a meninges release and it hurt. He did it wrong. All right, I promise you. If it's done correctly, it doesn't hurt. And not only that, the adhesions being pulled apart doesn't hurt because you don't have any nerves in the meninges. Right. All right, you know, if your fingers grow together and you force them apart, you're going to be screaming like bloody murder because there's lots of nerves in there.

01:02:34

But meninges have no nerves in them, so even if they tear and get pulled apart and everything, you can't feel it. All right? All right? The only time it hurts if they do that is if they push in the wrong direction and it pulls on your body or makes you worse otherwise. But once those get pulled apart, you know, we have people, if you go on the ABC YouTube channel, we have people who have a hard kyphosis where their body's all curved over. Okay? And that thing comes out.

01:03:05

I have one guy. The video looks like it's a poor video because it's from… I don't know when it was from. The early…

01:03:14

The late 90s or the early 2000s when phone video was pretty crappy. But I left it up there because this guy was 80 years old. He's a chiropractor. He's been trying to get people to fix this curve in his back, where it's curved forward. They call it a kyphosis. He's trying to get people to fix that for about 40 years, according to him.

01:03:35

All right. And nothing ever changed. And you watch it change. I treated him as a demonstration and we took video before and after. And he laid down flat. The first time he laid down, his head was like this because the curve was so big, his head barely touched the table. And at the end, I had him lay down and he's laying not quite flat. His head went a little bit like this, but almost flat.

01:04:00

And so you get, like you said, you get this straightened up immediately if everything's done right. But then you have these twists and turns and things like that. If you have viewers who have scoliosis, here's an interesting thing that nobody seems to know about scoliosis, which, I don't know, I actually have a YouTube video on it. But in your lumbar spine, down at the bottom, the spine processes that…

01:04:31

The things that stick off the back of your spine are these big, thick things like my thumb, and they're about this close together. All right? So if you… Anybody with a scoliosis, if you take a side view picture of them, you will see the sacrum. You know what the sacrum is? The triangular bone in your pelvis? You see, the sacrum has whatever angle it has, and then L5 is supposed to have an angle like this. All right? It's supposed to be about 20 degrees. Okay? So…

01:05:05

If you look at people who have a scoliosis, almost all of them have this down into the single digits, less than 10. So that means their body is pitched forward about 10 or 15 degrees. Okay? And it's right from the base, almost. Yeah. Well, from above the pelvis, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, the base of the spine, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants to walk around like this. So what do you do? You lean backward. Right?

01:05:33

Now, the reason that thing has collapsed is because it's stuck forward and you can't get it backward. But you can lean backward. But when you start to lean backward, between the sacrum and L5, you've got plenty of room for that thing to have an angle. You know, that's the way your body's designed. That's the way it developed. But between L4 and L5, the fourth and fifth vertebrae, and the third and fourth, you've got these big things behind there. And if you try and extend, they jam together.

01:06:02

So you don't want to hurt. You know, that hurts. So what you do is you twist it, okay? And if you look at people with a scoliosis on the front view, you'll see L5 is twisted maybe a little bit, and then L4 twists a lot on top of that, and L3 twists a lot on top, and now you've got this big curve going up there, all right? That's the actual mechanism of scoliosis, and I wrote a paper about that. They wouldn't publish it, okay? They wouldn't publish something from a chiropractor,

01:06:33

And I published all this other research. I tried to publish it in the chiropractic press. They wouldn't do it. Because if I'm right, they have to change everything they teach. And all these people who make money with all these different methods, if I'm right, all that's out the window and they have to do it exactly this way. I don't know if you realize, but when your car has a problem, does the mechanic have a choice in what to do to fix it? Well, they have a choice, yeah.

01:07:06

No, they don't. Well, what do you mean? If you're going to really fix a car that's not working right. Oh, you mean if you want to fix it correctly, there's only one way of fixing it. Yeah. Well, then see, if you're going to fix it correctly, you fix it. Well, sometimes there's shortcuts, there's shortcuts, there's cheats. Yeah, there's shortcuts and cheats, but those aren't fixes. Okay, sure. Those are things that let it run, okay, until they fall apart.

01:07:35

If you're really going to fix it, there's really only one way to do it. Well, with the way your body goes on a mechanical basis, there's only one way that gets the body to unwind properly. And if you do it exactly right, it works phenomenally. If you don't do it exactly right, you get less. I'm sorry to say…

01:07:59

that sometimes people getting treated by one ABC practitioner doesn't quite work the way it's supposed to. They go to another ABC practitioner, works great. Well, one of them is following the exact directions and the other one is not following the exact directions. And people are like, well, why don't you get your training so everybody follows the directions? And this is a harder thing to do than you would possibly imagine.

01:08:24

Yeah, I bet. And isn't there a skill issue with it? Isn't there a case of even if someone's trying to follow the directions, they don't get it right? ABC works so well and is so oriented to what the body needs that you can take anybody who has studied the ABC anatomy course and come to a three-day training as the basic course. They've never done anything before. They just did the anatomy course. After a three-day training, they can fix more people than you can imagine.

01:08:56

Now, if you want to get super expert at it, now you have to have more experience. You have to have bodies that are a little funky, that don't follow the exact directions and things like that. So can I ask you a couple of questions about this? Because I was talking about this with my wife and she had a bunch of skeptical questions. I said, OK, I'll pass them on to Jessie. I'm sure it'd be good for the podcast. So one of them, she said,

01:09:19

What about if you're a practitioner? What about if you're short, like you're five foot and then the person you're working on is six foot three? Can you still help them or is that like a limitation? Absolutely. All right. I'm five five. I've worked on basketball players who are seven two. OK.

01:09:36

All right. Now, that's not a limitation. It is challenging. OK, but it's possible. It's doable. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We have we have a lot of our practitioners in the United States here are Amish people. OK, I don't know if you have experience with Amish people, but they only have an eighth grade education. They stop at eighth grade.

01:09:57

Okay? But they get the, it's called the core curriculum program, what we teach ABC with. They get it. They do the anatomy course, which teaches you only the anatomy you need to, you know, it's only bone anatomy. All right? The anatomy you need to learn ABC. And then we teach them ABC. We teach them the manure. We teach them how to find what needs to be done. And we teach them how to fix it. And they, in order, excuse me.

01:10:29

In order to be a certified ABC practitioner, where we're willing to certify that you're doing at least a decent job, you have to come to at least two basic seminars. We won't even let you test for it unless you've come to two. And so when I teach the basic seminar, how many people are here for the first time and people raise their hand? Everybody else has been here at least once before, and some people once, some people twice. They're taking a third one, whatever it is.

01:10:58

I say, all right, when was your first ABC seminar? Typically, they'll say three months ago or four months ago or two months ago, whatever it is. I say, all right, have you been using ABC since then? Oh, yeah. How many people have you fixed that just astonished you what you did and you thought, I don't know, I didn't even know what I'm doing and I fixed them. Everybody's got stories. They've all got stories. Oh, my uncle, my sister, my brother, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A lot of people learn this

01:11:28

just for their family. Amish people tend to have large families. So if you have four or five kids, to take somebody to an ABC practitioner and pay $30 or $40, sometimes $60, depends upon where they are, for five people, it's a lot of money. So to do the course and become at least decent,

01:11:52

costs about four thousand dollars you get the core curriculum program and a live so it's somewhere around four thousand dollars a little bit more um but you get your money back you know even if it's just a couple it's like if you and your wife learned this and treated each other okay i don't know how much you're paying your guy and i'm you don't have to tell me all right but considering it's four thousand dollars you'd probably have your money back before the end of the year

01:12:18

Yeah, and we wouldn't have to drive four hours a day. Well, there you go. There you go. Where are you located? I'm in Lincolnshire, which is like the country. It's the middle of nowhere by English standards. Yeah. Did you ask if there's somebody near you?

01:12:38

I looked at the find a provider thing from… Yeah, well, if there isn't, there isn't. But I'm in the middle of nowhere. This is not any criticism of your system. Like, there's hardly any practitioner of anything anywhere near me. But yeah, there seem to be plenty of them throughout the UK. There's loads of them throughout the US. And I do see you have them throughout the world. Yeah. So you said you have 10,000 people, right? How many of those are actively working on people?

01:13:02

You know, I don't know. I've taught over 10,000 people. Probably at least a couple of thousands. Some of them are older and gone now, and some of them are… And we have people… It's like there's a whole bunch of people in Japan I taught, and about 15 or 16 years ago, maybe a little bit more, I had a computer crash, and I didn't have my database backed up, and so I lost probably about 2,000 practitioners worldwide.

01:13:33

uh contact information and some of them gotten back to me some of them haven't uh if you look on my website um there's there's an australian website a chinese website uh a european website and a u.s website for abc all right and you probably have uh about a thousand certified practitioners on there okay

01:13:58

But there's tons of people doing ABC who just don't keep up their certification. Their practice is big and this and that. To keep up your certification, you have to come to at least one seminar a year and get checked out. Yeah, fair enough. And there might be people just working on their extended family or whatever like you said. I would say there's a lot of people who never get certified because they're just working on their family. So that's there. But that's –

01:14:27

And that's very interesting. Yeah, I would say if you're any kind of body worker, if you're any kind of person who does work in people, you know, doesn't have to be a chiropractor, can be a massage therapist or, you know, you're a yoga teacher or anything like that. This is definitely something worth considering and looking into. Like if you like fixing people's bodies, this is definitely a system that you want to,

01:14:49

Try, I guess. And then if you agree that it's as good as we're saying it is, then it's something that you want to look into learning for yourself. As Dr. Jesse says, it's not a crazy level of commitment of time or money compared to a lot of different things. If I didn't have almost a dozen different companies running all the rest of it, I was tempted to do this because it's just so nice to have a skill that…

01:15:15

You can just help anyone who you come across, you know? Like it's so common that you, you know, when you're traveling or you're going to seminars or this and that, you know, like friends, family, like you come across people and they're in pain. You come across people and you can just, you know, in like 10 minutes, you can help them feel better. It's such a nice skill to have. So…

01:15:34

uh yeah i do think it's great i definitely think it's worth looking to that's just on your website right uh is it abc miracles again or miracles.com yeah and even even if you you know it's people say i'm crazy for giving it away free because it's such a valuable thing but even if you don't want to spend any money on it if you do the if you learn the first rib maneuver

01:15:57

You go around doing that first rib maneuver on people and you will improve their heart and lung function beyond what you can imagine. Plus, a lot of people, the major back problems they have in their lower back is their upper body stuck forward and it's pulling on their brain stem all the way down to the tailbone.

01:16:18

I wanted to ask you about lower back pain. I wasn't expecting you to say that. Yeah, because that's probably the most common type of pain of all, right? Lower back pain. That's why most people go to more practices, people go to practice than anything else. I know there's other stuff. There's upper back, there's knee pain, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know that that's true or not, but I think I've heard something like that. Yeah. Well, what would it be for you then if it's not lower back?

01:16:39

I don't know. Okay. So mind signing is lower back pain. That's the most common complaint statistically. So I was going to ask you, what's the cause of that? Like, you know, what would you do for that? There's a lot of, if you're around ABC long enough, you discover that anything can cause anything.

01:17:03

I've had people with ripping migraines and everything else. And some ABC practitioner comes along and fixes their feet. And as soon as they fix their feet, the migraine goes away. We had a woman. She was getting fuzzy-headed and dizzy, brain fog. And this guy in Australia was treating her. And I was in Australia teaching. And he had me to his office. He paid me to come to his office to help him out with people.

01:17:33

and this one woman was there and sometimes she was better and sometimes she was worse and he wanted to figure it out so we go all through the protocol all right it starts from the head and goes down in most cases and we get to the feet and legs and she gets up you know and after he does each thing and i'm watching to make sure he does it right i said so how's your head and she's like i'm still fuzzy you know so we do the feet and legs and she gets up and says oh well it's gone

01:18:02

I said, okay. I said, take a little walk around. And she walks around. She goes, oh, it's back. Now, this guy had a very thick carpet there. Okay. All right? Which your feet sink in and it twists your feet and everything. Took us a while to figure that out. But I had him redo the feet and legs. And we did one part at a time. All right? And it worked out that it was her left fibular head.

01:18:30

All right. So when she would walk on the carpet, her foot would twist and that would go out. And that caused the chain reaction all the way up. So it was pulling on her brainstem. All right. So I got her outside on the tile. All right. And I had him do the fibular head there. OK, not in the office and everything. And she brightened up and she was like, oh, my God. And she walked around. She is. Wow. Do people really live like this? Because it was very unusual for her.

01:18:58

Okay. And we have a little tool that has a spring where you can use it to fix that. And I showed her how to do that. And so she actually bought the practitioner's tool. I had to get the practitioner a new tool. All right. And this woman, for the first time in her life…

01:19:17

She went, you know, it's Australia, so that's in the South Pacific, and she had friends in Taiwan and, you know, all these different places in Bali and all this. And she disappeared from the guy's practice for about two years, visiting all her friends, because she never had been an hour from her house for over 30 years because she was always fuzzy-headed. And so if she got fuzzy-headed, she would do this thing and…

01:19:43

Oh, back – so where you have the mechanical problem is not related necessarily to any one particular thing because it can start a chain of events. So you can have more reasons for that than you can count. But typically, as far as back pain goes, typically when your upper body gets stuck forward –

01:20:08

You're forward. Besides pulling the bones out of place, it pulls on your brainstem and spinal cord. And that's causing… So a lot of people get their first rib maneuver done and say, oh my God, my back pain's gone. Because that's enough to take the stretch off and all that. So trying to say it's anyone… Anybody who tells you this causes that, it might be true. But I guarantee you it's not the only reason.

01:20:35

You can have all sorts of twists and turns and everything else to try and get this thing figured out.

01:20:43

So certainly, I know you'd recommend it to everyone, but I'd say at the very least, if you're a body worker, if you like working on people, go to the website and learn that first rib maneuver. I think it literally takes less than 60 seconds and some people maybe will be very, very grateful if you can do that on them. Oh, yeah. Some people, you'll save their life whether they know it or not. So that's definitely worth learning at the very minimum.

01:21:06

Let me ask you another objection that I said I'd ask for my wife. So the other one, she's like, okay, and you mentioned the basketball players, but I'll ask you anyway. Like, what if the person doing it is very small? Like, you know, they don't have big muscles or anything. And then the person they're working on is like a, you know, very big muscular person or like a very obese person. Like, can you still help that person or is that making it too difficult? Absolutely, it's just harder. Okay. Yeah.

01:21:32

All right. You know, I when I tell I have smaller practitioners working on big people and I say, look, don't knock yourself out working on these big people. OK, either send them to some other practitioner who's bigger or if you want to work on them, take your time. And it may take you three visits to do on this big person where it takes you one visit to do on a regular person.

01:21:58

But their alternative is to not get fixed at all. Okay. So my wife is right. It does make it more difficult. So I guess if you're a tall, strong person, you're going to be able to help more people more easily from what I'm hearing. Generally. But look, I have a woman, Linda. I forgot her last name. She comes up to hear on me and I'm 5'5“.

01:22:24

And she's a physical therapist who learned how to do ABC. And she does a phenomenal job. All right. She's just south of Chicago. I had a guy I was treating. He was in Chicago and he called me up. He said, I need your best practitioner here. I don't care if I have to drive two hours. I need you. And I said, well, Linda's probably the best one.

01:22:46

And so he drives, she worked out of her house. He drives to the house and he says, he's about 6'1”, okay? And he says, I open the door and I look and, you know, I'm looking down at this person. And we're talking and she said, well, and I said, is Linda here? She goes, I'm Linda. And the guy goes, I'm thinking, who the hell did Jesse send me to? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:23:12

And so when he came back, I was living in Connecticut at the time. When he came back to me and he tells me this story and he says, but she did the best job of any practitioner I've ever been to except for you. So it depends on the person. OK, we've got plenty of small people who do an excellent job, even on big people. And we've got plenty of big people who mess up beyond what you can imagine.

01:23:36

And you've really said, and this is, I think, probably hard for some people to believe, but you've really said it doesn't require a lot of skill. You just have to follow directions. You just, if you're willing to push around people's bodies, you can learn this no problem. If you're not willing to push around people's bodies, don't bother. And there's plenty of people, you know, I have, I have a guy, he's about an hour from here, maybe a little bit. He owns a roofing company.

01:24:03

And he's bent over doing roofing all the time. And this guy is never going to get out of my office because what he does, you know, especially hammering or using a nail gun or anything, drags his body forward. And he needs to get treated every once in a while. And I tried to get his kids work for him and all this stuff. I tried to get any of them interested in doing this so they didn't have to drive here and they could treat them. They said, I'm not interested. Please stop.

01:24:34

And, you know, so if you're not interested, you're not interested. Let's talk about this as well. Yeah, that reminds me of something else. So as you said, well, actually, sorry, let me start with a question. So how long does it normally take to help someone? I know you're going to hate that kind of question. No, no, no. Of course, it depends on how swollen they are and everything else. But you're going to help somebody in the first 10 minutes, 15 minutes. No problem.

01:25:02

So I can just go for one session and that's good? That's enough? No, a lot of times it'll help people. You wouldn't believe how many times you have somebody traveling and they happen to go to some ABC practitioner or they go to some chiropractor who does ABC. And we know about it because they call us up, they find us on the web, and they call us up looking for a practitioner and they try and convince some chiropractor around them to learn this.

01:25:31

That's a lot harder to do than you would imagine, but we have that. We have people who – this guy Dave Cheatham, who is a chiropractor who does ABC, is very good. He's retired now. But for some reason, he was in Haddon Heights, New Jersey, and he would treat people, and they would get a change of job, and they'd move away.

01:25:56

And there was no ABC practitioner around, so they quit their job and go back and find another job in New Jersey so they could be near this guy to get their body fixed. And we have that happen all over the world all the time. Well, believe you, but that makes it sound more like it is something you have to keep doing, right? It's not something… Well, you have to get to a point where you're unwound enough. The average person takes about two and a half years to get their body unwound enough to

01:26:23

So that they don't need any sort of regular treatment at all. I've got people I've treated for two, two and a half years. And they come back to me eight years later. I fell off a roof or I did this. I need to get treated. They get treated. One of my favorite things. This guy Joe. I forgot his last name. Leto I think was his. When I was back in Connecticut. He was in a really nasty car accident. And it took about four years.

01:26:56

maybe a little bit more to get him all the way unwound. And it was in July of whatever year it was. And I said, you know, Joe, the last three times you've been in, there's been next to nothing to do. So unless your body has a problem, don't come back. You know, but if your body has even a small problem, come back right away. It'll be fast to fix. If you wait for it, it'll take a little bit longer. But, you know, and so this was in July of whatever year it was. And I was practicing in Milford, Connecticut. And

01:27:25

And November that year, there was a big snowstorm up in Vermont. And so if you're a skier, that's like having candy drop down from the sky. So he and his friends drive up to Vermont. They ski like crazy. And coming back, they ran off the road. Now this is the 1980s where the speedometers were analog.

01:27:48

All right. And they ran off the road. They slid off a thing and they hit a tree and they know they were going at least 78 miles an hour because that's where the speedometer was stuck.

01:27:59

And he brought in his three friends. There were four of them in the car. He brought in his three friends. We took x-rays. I showed him what to do. I showed him his x-rays. And there was a big curve there, but no twist, big curve. He's like, oh, my God, I'm going to be coming here for another four years. I said, no, your friend's mine. I said, but your body's in too good a shape. I'd be surprised if you're here six months. And six weeks later,

01:28:25

I was saying to him, you know, the last two or three times you're in, there's almost nothing to do. So unless you have a problem. So once your body gets to that really good position, fixing it is no big deal. And the reason it probably took me four years to fix him to begin with was because of how messed up his body was before he even got in the collision, the original collision. But this is a constant. The people who've had this done, they get into these horrific accidents,

01:28:57

And a month or two months, and boom, they're back to normal. So when I say you're going to be healthier than you could possibly imagine after getting this done, I am very serious. My patients taught me what long-term ABC could do. I had lots of people, I don't think you're going to get any better. This is the end. No, no, no, I'm still improving. And years, years, and they unwind through things that I would never imagine.

01:29:27

Let me ask you this. I'm sorry to ask you this question because it annoys me when I get some variation of it. But like people, people often kind of imagine or romanticize like a time in the past when everything is better. And I think like a lot of people would be like, well, you know,

01:29:46

most of our ancestors didn't have this and they were okay. I get the same thing about supplements or all kinds of stuff. And so it's like, why do we need this now? And I think maybe a lot of people would say, oh, it's because we're sitting down all day and stuff like that. But

01:30:03

Would that even account for, you know, what you're talking about? Not really. No. Like people would have had injuries and stuff like that throughout history. Right. So how did we used to be OK or did we not? We did not. All these people that this one person had this thing with the J back and, you know, the native cultures in Africa never had back pain. Man, if you had back pain and things like that, then you died.

01:30:30

You didn't survive. You died. All right. But all right. When I was researching, when I found this thing, bones out of place in the direction, the body can't self-correct because there's no muscle pulling direction. My first thought was, you know, this is like the stupidest thing. It can't be that simple because everybody knows this. And I started talking with people and they were like, oh, I didn't realize that. I thought your body could pull bones in every direction.

01:30:56

And I was like, hmm. And this is doctors and patients. Anybody I talked to said that. So I started researching. I went back to the time. I looked at everything I could find on manipulation. I looked at stuff from Greek. Before the Greeks, Chinese were doing manipulation 5,000 years ago.

01:31:17

They've got all these treaties. Some of them have been translated to English. And I was looking for somebody who wrote down bones out of place in a direction the body can't self-correct because there's no muscle pulling in the direction needed. Well, to my surprise, Vedic medicine, all right, everybody talks about India, how Vedic medicine, how wonderful it was and everything else like this. You look through the Veda and all their stuff, they had all these things on manipulation 12,000 years ago.

01:31:46

right 12 thousands yeah that stuff is old india was india was a civilization and everything long before china

01:31:55

Yeah, I thought Babylon was supposed to be the earliest civilization with printed records, according to official history, like 6,000 years ago. That's Western bias. Okay, okay. They've been around a lot longer. I know that's certainly what they claim, right? Yeah, and I don't know. Obviously, I wasn't there. I don't know the truth. But okay, yeah. Anyway, ancient, ancient records. All these people who said humans didn't have this before, they're all full of baloney.

01:32:23

Human bodies have not changed much in a very, very long time. Go to the archaeologists. They just found these gigantic skeletons. People talk when giants roam the earth, and people don't believe in it, but they just found out near Babylon in…

01:32:47

Gilgamesh or whatever is somewhere out there. They found these skeletons of people who were 15 feet, 20 feet tall. Right, okay. All right? But their skeletons are the same basic human frame we have now, just bigger. Really? Yeah. Yeah, and I guarantee you all these people who say it was better in the past, they're all full of baloney.

01:33:17

Well, to go back to that Vader's thing, so you're saying they were doing something similar to what you're teaching? Oh, yeah, they were doing manipulation. They have all these books on manipulation and everything. They have pictures. I guess what I'm saying is, were they doing the type of manipulation that other people are doing that you're saying is not as effective, like chiropractors now, or are they doing the type that you would say is effective? Look, they have things they use to tie people to a frame and drop them.

01:33:43

Okay. Okay? So they were literally dropping them in the hope that something would get better. Okay? And then they got more sophisticated as they figured out how the body works and what they're doing and all this other stuff. But in all this time, from 12,000 years ago up to now, until the 1980s when I wrote it down…

01:34:03

I could not find anybody who said bones go out of place in the direction the body can't self-correct because there's no muscles pulling in the direction needed. And that's the key to fixing people's body structure. And it is more of a key than anybody imagines. If you haven't been doing ABC for five or six years, you have no idea what can be fixed by getting structure corrected. You have people with cerebral palsy.

01:34:32

They are all spastic. The way that works is you have a nerve that goes from your head down your spinal cord and then from your spinal cord out to a muscle. There is a lower motor neuron and an upper motor neuron. If the lower motor neuron gets cut,

01:34:50

You have flaccid paralysis. It's loose. You can't do anything. It just flops around. If the lower one is okay, but the upper one gets cut, the upper motor neuron has an inhibition effect. And everybody knows this. This is normal medical knowledge. The upper motor neuron has an inhibitory effect on the lower motor neuron.

01:35:12

So if there's something wrong with the upper motor neurons, all right, the lower motor neurons contract, you get somebody who's all spastic, all right? And it's always funny because people see these spastic people walking around and they think they're retarded. They're not. They're just like you and me. They just don't have control over their muscles because they're spastic, all right?

01:35:36

So what happens is when you get somebody like that ABC, you have to work your tush off, pulling apart meningeal adhesions and stuff like that. And there's some of them up on the website. But you have them walking before they get treated and walking after they get treated. 20 to 30 percent of their spasticity goes away right in the beginning.

01:35:58

Now, they usually don't get 100% because some of the nerves, you know, the nerves that are on stretch aren't working up here. And you take the stretch off up here and then the lower ones, everything starts working again. But the odds that you're going to get everything done with this developmental, you know, it's usually a developmental thing. The odds that you're going to get it all handled, very small, but unbelievably better.

01:36:20

Multiple sclerosis. If you look in Alfbrecht's book, you can actually get… His last book was Skull Traction and Cervical Cord Injury, which is available on Kindle, on Amazon. I think it's page 74, somewhere toward the end of that, he talks about clinical experience with slackening the spinal cord and

01:36:47

It alleviates the symptoms of ALS and multiple sclerosis and things like that. If you talk, there's a chiropractor, Patrick Bain, who is in Arizona. I think it's Springback Chiropractic. When he found out about ABC, I think he was still in school.

01:37:07

He was researching MS, and I had some things on MS on my website. And I said, yeah, you get this done, and you won't have MS anymore, but it's going to take a long time. This is not, I mean, to get that bad mechanically that it's creating all these things, you've got to be really bad. And it took him about five or six years, but no MS, it's all gone.

01:37:32

Now, he's got this up on his website and stuff like that, and people call him and ask him about it, but he said almost nobody goes through it because it's hell to go through because you get better and then your body unwinds to a certain position and you swear you're worse. And if you don't stick with it, it's a very bumpy road. But five or six years out, the people who stick with it, it's gone.

01:38:01

And people are like, how come it's not known? Because nobody wants to do it. So from your perspective, MS would just be created by even more of what you said, right? It's nothing different. More bones out of place, basically. It's more bones and twisting and how it affects the soft tissues when it's all twisted up and everything. All the nerve stuff and all that stuff, that's a secondary effect.

01:38:25

The chiropractors are trying to say that's the main thing. Eh, it's baloney. Bragg established a long time ago that the mechanical problems happen and all the nerve and all that other stuff happens after and it's got basically nothing to do with causing the problems. It's an effect. It's not a cause, it's an effect. And it's straight mechanics.

01:38:48

So I've heard these stories about you, how you can just look at someone and kind of tell what's off about them. I was wondering if you might want to do a demonstration with me. I could step back and you can say, and I might not understand it, but some people watching might, and they might find it interesting. Would you be open to that? Well, yeah, sure. I mean, just the way you're sitting there, I don't know if you realize it. If I'm being a mirror, okay.

01:39:13

all right well now you change it oh well i just want to go back so you can see more of me that's all well hang on so yeah i'll go back to slouching go ahead yeah all right so so from your neck up your head goes off to the side and then turns toward the center of the camera all right so you got something going on up there your your chest if you look at your breast one's higher than the other a little bit so you got some sort of curve in here okay uh take a deep breath in and let it out

01:39:44

Yeah, so the whole top of your chest. If you put your hands down here like on your breast and notice your ribs, all right? Take a deep breath. Feel how your ribs sort of move and open up down there? Yep. All right? Move higher up, all right? Now take a deep breath. So like where your pinky is, your ribs come out, okay? But above your pinky, your chest doesn't work. It just opens up, all right? Excuse me. It doesn't open up. It just comes up. It doesn't come out. All right?

01:40:21

Yeah, well, see, your ribs are supposed to work like a bucket handle. All right? So, you know, your ribs are in here like this. And if they're working properly, they go like this, like a bucket. You know how people take a big, deep breath and their chest comes out? Yeah, I don't do that. Yeah, whatever. Well, that's pathological. Your chest isn't supposed to. And you know how people take a big, deep breath and go. Yeah. That's because their chest doesn't work.

01:40:47

I have a whole bunch of yoga people. I'm going back just so I'm near the mic. Yeah, that's fine. I have a whole bunch of yoga people who have emailed me over the years, and they say, I watch your videos on your website, and after getting treated with you, people's bellies don't move when they breathe. And I send back, yeah, now their chest works, so they don't have to. And they say, no, no, no, belly breathing is the best. And the answer is, if your chest doesn't work, belly breathing is good.

01:41:17

But it's like right now, if you try and breathe with your belly, take a deep breath. I breathe my belly all the time. I mean, you're saying it's bad, which is fair enough, but I do. No, no, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's bad to me. See, if you stand up, all right, and step back, all right, go ahead and take a deep breath. Your belly doesn't come out hardly at all. Really? Well, if you push it out, you can. Well, I'm not pushing it out. This is how I breathe. All right, just take a normal deep breath. Okay.

01:41:55

Yeah, well, you need to get treated. You're stuck. Fair enough. That's what I wanted, right? Okay, I'm stuck, fine. I knew I wasn't right. But what's the assessment? And the thing that you said about the head is correct. I've seen it on an x-ray and it's all twisted. So what causes that? And what causes the breathing thing? Let's talk about both. See, you have bones out of place in a direction the body can't self-correct and a compensation pattern for that.

01:42:21

exactly what it could be anywhere like you said could be in my feet or whatever yeah okay you know how people say heels are bad for you yep sure yeah biggest lie in the world okay there isn't there isn't anybody who on like maybe a half inch heel oh i thought you meant like high heels sorry okay well even high heels high heels make you go back but they can be so high that they push you over too far forward

01:42:48

But even if they're pushing you over too far forward, your body goes back. All right. And you know how in we talked about shoes before. So sorry, are you saying the high heels are not bad for you? High heels that push you over forward are they they're bad for you. They are. OK, but but a half inch to an inch heel. All right. If you look at all the training shoes, you know, all the runners show they all have heels because heels make people better. OK. All right. And they you know, they they empirically figured this out.

01:43:21

But it's a lever system. As your pelvis goes forward, your body straightens out. And anybody who says heels are bad for you, well, talk to all these pregnant women and these other women who all they can wear is heels because when they go flat, their body collapses forward. And anybody can stand up, take a deep breath, and then put a half-inch heel under their heels and stand up. They'll notice they're more straight, and they take a deeper breath.

01:43:49

Isn't that compensating for something? I mean, surely we should just be able to grow on barefoot without an issue? So people say, well, how come we evolved? Isn't barefoot the best? And the answer is you're walking around on a flat surface, right? In this room, yes, yes. How many flat surfaces do you see in nature? None.

01:44:12

Not none. There's flat rocks every once in a while. Well, I thought you meant 100% flat. Nothing's 100% flat in nature, right? Well, you can have a flat rock or you can have the beach. I mean, it's on an angle, but it's flat, right, with the sand.

01:44:24

Okay. But the sand kind of, you know, has a bit of give, right? You're talking about like completely straight. When was the last time you were on a beach near the water, man? The sand doesn't have very much give if it's wet. I go to the beach frequently and I leave footprints in it, so that tells me there's give. Yeah, but right up near the water is, you know, when it gets packed. Okay, yeah. Fair enough. All right, it happens occasionally. I'll give that to you. Every once in a while. But see, your feet are made…

01:44:50

to motivate you to be able to make you move on uneven surfaces. They are not made for flat surfaces. And if you look in the sit-sleep-stand book, it shows you how to set up your shoes properly. Now, let's talk about arch supports for a second because we're talking about this. So why do they give you two arch supports when they give you arch supports? The answer is you have two feet.

01:45:20

But the medical people and the podiatrists and all these others, they don't have the concept of a breakdown side and a compensation side. All right? So like my body, when my body's breaking down, it goes forward and to the right. Okay. Okay? Other people go forward to the left. All right? Some people are more left. Some people are more forward. Some people are more right. Some people are more forward. But forward is the problem because that's where there's no muscles pulling in the direction needed and whatever twist you have.

01:45:49

So if you look in my shoes, underneath my talus bone, remember we talked about that keystone? Underneath my talus, there's this very thin dot of neoprene. I don't remember what the exact measurement is. We figured it out years ago. And if you put that underneath the person's breakdown side, they immediately pop up better and they're better, but they don't really feel it. But then you take it away and they feel like they're collapsing.

01:46:21

If you put it on the other side, it throws them tremendously off balance. And we're talking about something that's only about maybe two or three times as thick as this card. Okay. All right? So, you know, your feet, if we set up your shoes just right, you know, you have barefoot shoes. All right? Do they have an insert inside them? Yes. Take the insert out. I guarantee you, you'll feel better. Okay. Okay.

01:46:52

Well, that's the Vivo barefoot ones do. The other kind of toe ones don't. But yeah. Well, the toe shoes where you put your fingers in, the ones that don't have any arch support are great. Yeah, Vibram five-finger ones. Some of them have a little molded arch support in them. They're not so good. Your body…

01:47:21

What kind of car do you drive? I don't drive, but we have a Tesla. All right. Okay. So Teslas are pretty tight, but have you ever driven in like a Porsche?

01:47:32

I hate it. I'm tall. I'm six foot three. So I couldn't understand why anyone would buy a Porsche. It's like a tiny toy car to me. For your size body, I agree. I'm 5'5“. But you have to play with the seat. But you know how tight it drives? Sure. You turn the wheel a little bit here and it goes. And then even in the Tesla, you turn the wheel and it's like it's got a lot of play in it. All right? Well, your body is more like the Porsche. When you get treated with ABC…

01:48:01

you notice these little tiny changes. The whole princess and the pea thing, you start getting treated with ABC and once your body is set up right,

01:48:14

in a chair or in a bed or with shoes, you get very spoiled. Actually, I want to talk about this. I want to go back to the breathing thing because I think that's been interesting to me, but I want to talk about the pillow. So that's like, so I do have the ABC pillow and when I saw this, I was like, this is such a genius idea because how many people are watching, listening right now? Like, if you have the experience of pillows where you're like, you know, maybe,

01:48:34

one is not enough, but two is too much and they're never quite right. And like, so this pillow that these guys sell, they sell like, it's got all these different layers in and you've got to take enough out until it feels exactly right. But the,

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01:50:12

I used to tell people to stack up towels. My wife works with us. She does the admin for the office. People would call up and complain that the towels move and this and that and everything else. She said, well, why can't we make a foam pillow that has different layers and all this stuff? I think that's a great idea. I'll give your wife credit for that. I said, go ahead. She did. If you want to see my wife, as a matter of fact, we're sleeping.

01:50:36

If people go on YouTube and they search, you have to type out the whole thing, advanced biostructural correction sleeping. There's two videos of me doing this guy, Jeff, he's one of the practitioners, and my wife. And I don't know how they explained it to you, but if you look at a person's eyes, if the pillow height is exactly right,

01:51:00

all right their eyes just close oh no they didn't tell me that okay and your eyes close if the pillow height is even an eighth of an inch off you're trying to close your eyes and they keep popping open right you'll see that on the video especially with my wife but what happens is everybody says you have to get your pillow so your spine's straight okay it's stupid okay

01:51:29

You're sitting there. Your spine's not straight, right? We talked about the way it curves. In fact, I've been told my spine's too straight. It doesn't have the curve that it should do. Well, that's from the side view. He's working on that. But the thing is…

01:51:44

But I guess I'm just emphasizing the point you made of it's not supposed to be straight, right? Right. Well, it's not supposed to be straight from the side view. From the front view, it's supposed to be straight. Oh, from the front it is. Yes, I see what you mean. Yes, yeah. All right. So from the front view, you know, your spine's not straight. It's got this twist. Yep. You set your pillow up so that your spine will be straight. You're not going to be a happy guy because you've got meningeal adhesions in there. You've got this turn and everything. So you need the pillow height.

01:52:13

that fits your spine. And let me tell you, when you get it right, your eyes will just close and you're like, oh no, my eyes are open. People lay there, no mom, my eyes are open. And you can see them, they're blinking because they can't really keep their eyes open without effort. And if the pillow height is even a little bit off, years ago when I was first doing this, it's a story, but I bet a guy that if he laid down on a block of wood that was just right,

01:52:48

Okay, I had cement floors in my office. Okay. I said, I can lay you on the cement. And if I had a block of wood that was just the right height, your eyes would close and you'd be falling asleep in no time. Yeah, I would have taken that bet that you're wrong about that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He said, what do you want to and this was in the 1980s. I said, I said, well, let's bet $100. He said, Doc.

01:53:12

You know, $100 in the 1980s was money, right? Now $100 goes away. All right. So we bet 20. All right. And he says, where are you going to get a block of wood? I said, there. I had an unabridged dictionary in the office. He said, what do you mean? I said, it's paper. That's wood. And he's looking at me like, all right, let's go. And so we go. And he could tell the difference between four pages of

01:53:37

of an unabridged dictionary because his eyes closed or didn't. But I got it, and he was laying there with his eyes closed, and I said, wait, I've got to do something. I'll be right back. And I disappeared to my office, and there were mirrors in the rooms, and I disappeared. But I could see him in the mirror, and he wasn't looking at me. And he's laying there, and his eyes are like this, and finally he just went like this, and he started. I waited another 30 or 40 seconds. I said, so you're pretty much out? He said, huh?

01:54:09

I said, pretty much out? He said, oh, yeah, I guess so. I said, all right, you owe me 20 bucks. And he said, you're going to make me pay? I said, hey, a bet's a bet, you know.

01:54:22

A bet is a bet.

01:54:52

The darn guy had a $23 lunch, which was a lot in 1980s. He spent more at lunch than I won. That's why I remember it so vividly. So let me ask you, because that's probably really hard for most people listening to this to believe that someone could fall asleep on concrete in someone's office within a few minutes. So can you explain a bit more about what the mechanism for that is? Well, once you get treated with ABC…

01:55:21

All right. Enough. The adhesions are gone. And so your spine is not stuck in a holding pattern and it moves. Okay. So this is not only about the exact right level block. It's because the guy had had a bunch of treatments. You also need a stiff bed. All right. I don't know if your guy has told you, but they, they sell mattresses too. They do. Yeah. Um, yes, I, uh, yeah, my bed is, my mattress is as firm as I could get. Uh,

01:55:51

But I've heard of some people say that it's better to sleep on the floor or to sleep on like a thin yoga mat on the floor. So yeah, tell us about that. Yeah, well, if your body is working well, you need a hard, stiff bed.

01:56:05

And a pillow high enough to keep your head even. And we discussed that. And I've had people, they curse at me. They say all sorts of nasty things about me until they get their pillow height right. And sometimes it takes them six months to figure this thing out. And once they get their pillow height right, they say, I hate you. I'm like, why do you hate me? Because you're right about this.

01:56:31

Because they sleep, they get their pillow height right, and then they go sleep somewhere else. They go to a hotel or they go visit relatives or something. And they have to work like heck to get their pillow right. I had one guy, I told him about this. I said, you don't have to buy my pillow. You can do it with towels. And he did it. It's a whole long story. He never came back to get treated a second time. But he set his towels up.

01:56:59

And I don't know what, six months, a year later, whatever it was, his wife came in for her treatment and said, boy, would you be laughing at what happened with my husband? I said, what? He said, well, the woman who comes in and cleans had her daughter come up from wherever, blah, blah, blah. And she helped him and they took the towels and they washed him. And he came to bed and he's like, what happened to my towels? It was all upset. All right.

01:57:26

And so, you know, and I said, and she said the first time he did it, it took him a half hour to get it right. I said, I'll bet you this time it only took him about 10 minutes. She said, yeah. I said, well, once you know, you know. You know, and he said, yeah. But now, all right, probably to this day, if the guy's still alive, he was, yeah, he's probably still alive. But if you go to his house, you'll probably see the towels on his bed. And according to his wife, he's got a laminated towel.

01:57:55

piece of paper there that says don't touch these owls that's funny okay can we give people guidance to that because it's another thing they can try for free right to validate what you're saying so what's the guidance on the pillows how do people try this

01:58:12

Sorry, not pillows, the towels, right? I'm sure it's easier to buy one of your pillows, but just for people to test it, how do they do it with towels? You just fold up the towels until you get to the right height. So it's all about just keep testing slightly different heights. Yeah, I will tell you that 90% of the people tell me they never thought it could be as low as it is. Okay. Okay?

01:58:35

All right. This one practitioner, she's very insistent on being right about things. Okay. Which I can relate to. All right. And she says, she comes to a seminar. You can't get that table. You can't get that towel right. Excuse me. So you can't get that pillow height right. It's impossible.

01:58:54

I said, well, let's do it now. And we didn't even do it on a, like a massage table or one of our treatment tables. We did it on a plastic, you know, they have those plastic fold-out tables. She was on that. She was on one of those. All right. And I took the pillow and it took me about a minute. And she's laying there and her eyes are closing. And I was telling everybody else, you know, in the room. I said, by the way, you notice your eyes are closing now? And she goes, oh.

01:59:25

We're all upset about this thing. And she looks at the pillow. She goes, that's so low. I never thought it could be that low. I said, well, that's the difference between you and me. I don't think. I physically test everything. And ABC works the way it works because I physically test everything everybody tells me. To this day, somebody comes along and they say, oh, this is better. If I haven't heard it before, I test it.

01:59:53

Unfortunately, I'm sad to say, I have never had anybody give me a suggestion that has worked and has followed through. I'm still doing and teaching what I did in 1989. The only thing that's different, I figured out a better way to do the meninges releases with the stretch, and I figured out how to teach better. The fight has always been, what's Jesse doing that other people aren't doing?

02:00:26

People don't realize for me to figure out what I'm doing, to actually do it,

02:00:34

All right. I understand what the body is. I've been taking all these sitting and standing x-rays. I know what to do. But to explain every little thing to somebody, not such an easy job. No, it's not. Anyone who's even had to train anyone for a job knows that. Yeah. We've got it pretty much down. And like I say, you can do this course. And if you're following the directions, you're going to get more people than you would believe.

02:00:56

So let me just go back to the towel thing for people to test. So would you start off with literally one layer of towel and then you do two layers of towels and you keep increasing it so you're at a level you're… Depends on the bit. And I talk about this on the video. The thing you should do is stack up the towel so it's too high. And then you lay on it and you know what too high feels like.

02:01:19

and then make it distinctly too low, maybe three layers, four layers, really too low, and you get the feeling of when it's too low. Then you start building it up, and it feels a certain way. Now, the interesting thing is when you get to the right height, you don't feel your body. If you're laying there, and you're saying, oh, this is really comfortable, it's either a little bit too low or a little bit too high. That's when it gets comfortable.

02:01:51

But if you're laying there going, you know, your eyes are closing and I can't tell if this is comfortable or not, that's probably the right spot. Okay. Right? But if you're comfortable, right, if it's too high, even one layer of towel too high, and we're talking about your average cheapo thin bath towel. We're not talking about these big fluffy towels you get in expensive hotels or, you know, you might have it at your house.

02:02:25

Some people need a washcloth. If you get one of the ABC pillows, you know that thinnest layer? Yep. That thinnest layer is that thick because we can't make it any thinner or the foam shreds. But there's people who get their pillow height to, if that thinnest layer is on there, it's too high. And if that thinnest layer is off there, it's too low.

02:02:55

And I was in Milford, Connecticut, which is where New Haven, Connecticut, where Yale is. And there was this professor there, and she was German. And she got the ABC bed, she got the ABC pillow, and she complained to me that she couldn't get it right. And I said, well, let's do a video consult. You have a phone, put the phone on a pillow and just aim it at it, and I'll do it when you get home. And I happened to have the time, so we did it.

02:03:22

And I said, yeah, that thing is a little bit too thick. Too low is, you know, it's too low or it's too high. I said, do you have a washcloth? Now, I don't know about German people in general, but she said, washcloth? What? You know, she said, I have a dish towel. Now, you know how thin a dish towel is, right? I said, okay, go get the dish towel. So she got the dish towel. She put it there and she laid down. And on the camera, I'm seeing, I said, do me a favor. I said, double the dish towel. Make it two layers. She doubled the dish towel and she's laying down. She goes…

02:03:59

You know, she's trying to close her eyes and they keep popping open. I go back to one layer and she's just out. I said, all right, do it like that with one layer and let me know how it is next time you're in. She said, OK, thank you. She came in and she said, having your pillow height right is the difference between day and night. And I thought this was a great pun. Right. I thought and I said, well, that's a great joke. And she looked at me like I was an idiot. Whatever.

02:04:28

What impact does this have? Oh, it's huge. It's huge. Because or how? Well, if you're laying there with your pillow a little bit too high, you're going to wake up with a stiff neck and you're going to get headaches and things like that.

02:04:45

If it's a little bit too low, you're going to have problems lower down in your body as your spine twists. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. If you think you have your pillow height right, in the middle of the night you roll onto your back, it's a little bit too high. Okay. These are great tips. And would a person sleep more deeply or more soundly or anything? Soundly. All right. What happens is if you sleep this way, first of all, you don't move. Okay. All right.

02:05:16

My wife and I had a king bed. And the only reason we had a king bed is because we had three dogs that slept with us. Okay? The dogs have passed on. And she said, well, we got a queen bed. And unless I move my pillow really close to her, she's on the other end of the world as far as I'm concerned. Because I have my pillow set.

02:05:43

And I like to read, so I'm on my phone. I put the phone, I have a little holder there on a little table. And I'm reading, and I'm at the end of the bed. And she's got like two-thirds of the bed or more to do whatever she wants on. But she doesn't move either if she gets her pillow high, right? We just don't move. I wake up in the exact same position I'm laying there. Because if your body, if it's rested and works, you don't move. You know, when you're sleeping, you're not dead, right?

02:06:13

You're just sleeping. And if you're uncomfortable, you move. Well, I know I move a lot. I have this aura ring thing that tracks my… Well, constantly, but including during my sleep. And yeah, it can tell I'm moving a lot. So obviously, I haven't got this right. You get your pillow high right, you won't move. Amazing. Where do people… Maybe someone…

02:06:35

they're not going to have a practitioner near them or whatever, but I guess everyone could potentially buy a pillow. Obviously, they can try it at home with their towels, but where do you actually buy a pillow if you wanted to? Well, in the UK, you contact ABC Europe. Okay. All right. In Australia, you contact ABC Australia. So it's your local ABC whatever. Yeah. Okay. Great. And then here in the US, you can contact the ABCI, which is the ABC International Institute.

02:07:02

Okay, and if you really want to go for it, if the pillow works, you might want to get them. Well, why would you want to get the mattress if the pillow makes such a big difference? Well, if the mattress is soft, you can't get your pillow height right. Okay, so that's a caveat for this then. It's not going to work if you have a soft mattress. Memory foam or pillow top that's soft can't fix it, okay?

02:07:26

You want to see the woman who's responsible for the pillow? Yeah, sure. That's her right there. She's responsible for the pillow. Without her, we wouldn't have any foam pillows. I'd still be telling people to fold up towels. Yeah, I can imagine a lot of men would be happy to fold up towels like you gave the example, but women are like not want to look at a bunch of folded towels on their bed every day. I am not going to comment on that because I like my life the way it is.

02:07:54

well i'm not saying they're wrong you know really look at it's a bit crappy isn't having a bunch of towels guys are willing to put up with a lot more less aesthetic things than women mostly are yeah yeah i think that's very valid and i think it's a great invention great invention um so okay um is there anything that you wish i'd have asked you um

02:08:21

Or anything you'd just like to add? The truth is all the things I've told you are the small story with ABC. Because if I tell you the big story, nobody believes it.

02:08:37

All right. I mean, we got people with hard problems. Let's finish off. Let's finish off a one or two so dramatic that it's hard to believe stories. Well, a lot of people aren't going to like me for this, but when I first started figuring this stuff out, I had a practice in Milford, Connecticut, and Milford, Connecticut at that time was a very blue-collar place. Lots of factories, things like that, U.S. Motors, a couple others. All right.

02:09:04

um and uh they would do um chest x-rays all right they stopped doing it because they're afraid of the radiation but they they would do chest x-rays to in their six-month health exam for their workers okay and i had all these guys you know they're smoking they're factory workers they're smoking two or three packs a day cigarettes all right and they came in

02:09:31

And I, you know, they talk about it. I get a medical history class.

02:09:35

and they tell me about this, you know, lung congestion and things like that. I said, well, that's going to clear up. You come here. You notice after I do, and I'd say, here, stand up, and I'd do the first rib maneuver to them, and I'd have them breathe before and after. I'd say, you know how you can breathe better? Yeah, I'm going to treat you. Your body's going to work so well that you're going to breathe, and you're going to clear out your lungs because when you breathe, you know, the reason lungs get congested is because the ribs don't work.

02:10:01

Ah, we forgot to go back to the breathing thing. All right. So I'm glad you brought this up. Sorry to interrupt your story. Finish the story first. All right. So what happens is I'd be treating these guys. And six months later, all right, they would come in and a bunch of them did this. Right. I mean, enough so that it's a regular thing. They said, remember you told me about this breathing stuff? I said, yeah. He says, tell me about that again. I told him. And he said, I said, why do you ask?

02:10:28

He says, well, because I got my six-month checkup, and the doc said he's glad I stopped smoking. And I said, did you stop smoking? He said, no. He says, I'm still smoking two or three packs a day, the same as I always was. I said, yeah, but you can breathe now, and you're clearing out your lung. He says, yeah. He says, I told that to the doc, and the doc said, no, that can't be. Right? The docs have that. Before you ask your breathing question, because I can think of it,

02:10:59

Once I started figuring this out, you know how they talk about RSD, reflex sympathetic dystrophy? Actually, I haven't heard of that, but okay. They used to call it where people's circulation goes and their hands turn black. Oh, Raynard's disease. Raynard's disease. All right. Same type of thing. All right. It's Raynard's or reflex sympathetic dystrophy is the medic. Well, this woman worked for a neurologist.

02:11:24

And she came in, it was sometime in the summer, I think maybe June or whatever. And she had back pain and she decided to come to me. I had, you know, ads in the paper. And she said she had Raynard's disease. And I said, well, that's going to go away too. And she looked at me like, you know, because the medical people, that never goes away or anything like that. Well, the short story is, in December, I was taking somebody up front. And I said, okay, who's next? And I got a big snowball in my face.

02:11:56

And I said, oh, thanks. What are you doing? She goes, Doc, look. She puts her hand out and it's as pink as mine is now. And I said, wonderful, you have a hand. She goes, Doc, I have Raynard's. My hand used to go black in the cold and now I'm picking up snow and it's still… I said, I told you I was going to fix that. And she said, you know, she just opened her mouth. I said, did you tell your doc about it? Because she works for this neurologist.

02:12:29

She said, yeah. I said, what did he say? He said, well, it must not have been Raynard's because you can't fix Raynard's. Yeah, typical. All right. So, you know, all these things all, you know, eventually everything unwinds out.

02:12:44

Okay? It takes whatever it takes. All right, what were you going to ask about breathing? Well, you know, you looked at mine. You said it was, you know, incorrect in some way. But the crucial thing, I think, which belly breathing, because a lot of people do that intentionally, right? Like martial arts practitioners, singers, yoga, all these kind of things, they teach you that it's correct to be from the belly. You were saying that that's not the case. So I'd like you to explain it. I got a story, okay?

02:13:13

I was out… It's a whole thing. I moved out to California and I had an office in LA. And I'm a Scientologist, you know, and they have a lot of movie people who are Scientologists and things like that. And so a lot of them came in… Wait, so you are a Scientologist? Yes. Yeah. And so…

02:13:36

So I had a bunch of the movie people and things like that. And there's this woman who was a singing teacher who was famous in the industry. If you weren't in the industry, you wouldn't know who she is. All right. But she was famous in the industry. And a couple of people had her come in to me for she had a neck thing or whatever.

02:13:59

And I happened to say to her, I said, you know how you teach people to belly breathe so you can belt it out and everything? She said, yeah. I said, you bring them here and they won't have to do that. And she looked at me like I was the smallest piece of dirt on the end of her shoe or something. I mean, you just got, she's looking at me like, I said, wait, I said, I'll show you. I said, sing a note. And she's looking, it was an industrial building with brick walls.

02:14:26

walls and all this stuff she said I'll blow the door I said just a excuse me better than that she gives this note I said okay I put her back against the wall I did the first rib maneuver and I fixed some vertebra that was stuck forward I said okay sing that note again she looks at me and she goes what did you do

02:14:51

I said, well, I told you. I said, your chest wasn't working. And now, see if you breathe. And I did the same thing with you. And she noticed her chest was… I said, hang on. Let me do a little bit. I did a little bit more. And she started singing. She goes, oh my God. It's so much more melodious. It's so much… I said, yeah, because now you can use your chest. I said, wait. I said, try and belly breathe. And she was like… It's really hard. I said, yeah, if your chest works, you don't belly breathe. You don't have to. And she was like…

02:15:21

And so, you know, a lot of these singers who, you know, got a second career, all right, you know, from the 60s, or not from the 60s, but from the 70s and all this stuff, they got a second career, okay? A lot of these people were sent to an ABC practitioner. I moved back to Connecticut about a year or two later. But a lot of these people, anytime you see somebody with big square shoulders, right? Now, Rihanna said it to somebody in an interview, so I can talk about it.

02:15:50

Right. You know about Rihanna? I've heard of her, yeah. If you ever look at Rihanna, okay, when she's on like the cover of like People magazine or any of these things, you see these other singers, you know, Britney Spears, they're all curved over, you know, they're all sitting and they're all slouched. Rihanna you never see slouched because she gets treated as actually an ABC practitioner in Ireland. I don't know how they got connected, but…

02:16:15

But she flies him to wherever she is in the world. She's having problems. She's got umpteen years. She's got, what, $4 or $5 billion? So to fly him there and have him treat her, no big deal to her. You're buying bubble gum, and it's the same thing to her that that is to you. But she has David go out there, and she has David treat her. And if you watch, like if you go see the Super Bowl…

02:16:43

Her shoulders are up and broad and everybody thinks that she's wearing some outfit that's got big shoulder pads and everything. But that's not true. That's her shoulders. She's up and broad. Okay? So what you're saying is broad as in not collapsed forward. Like mine. All right? You know, I carry a lot of weight now because I travel so much. I'm

02:17:07

I should be working out more and everything else. But, you know, if you look, my shoulders are up and square. Yours are actually more square than most people. They're still a little bit forward, but they're more square than most people. Okay, most people are sitting there, you know, their shoulders are rolled in. Okay, I can't do that without, if I don't turn my hand in, I can't get my shoulders to roll in. So, you know.

02:17:31

But sorry, so you're saying because when I see people and they say take a deep breath and I see them going like that, like you said, that seems to me like a very bad way of breathing. But isn't that breathing from the chest? Well, no, no, no. See, they're lifting up their shoulders because their chest isn't working. See, let your body just relax and take a deep breath without using effort.

02:17:59

Yeah, it still goes to the belly and the chest. Hang on, hang on. Notice how much air goes in. Take a deep breath without using effort and notice how much air goes in. Now do the whole thing with the shoulders and use a bunch of effort to breathe. Now you notice it's actually less air? Yeah, I think it's very inefficient, yeah. Well, see, you've been treated with ABC and a bunch of your chest works. So to use, they call them accessory breathing muscles.

02:18:31

All right. To use the other muscles like your shoulders and everything to try and lift up your chest, you actually mess up your mechanics and it doesn't work as well. Yeah, but I haven't done that for years. But what I have done and still do is, as I said, the belly definitely does move considerably when I take a deep breath.

02:18:47

So that means that the chest still isn't opening correctly? Not yet. Okay. It's parts. I do a thing to give people an idea of how good they're going to be. I stand behind them. I put my hands on their ribs. I start usually lower down. I say, take a deep breath. They take a deep breath. And then I hold their ribs and lift up about a half inch. I say, take a deep breath now. And they notice it's a lot bigger.

02:19:18

And then you go up to the middle of the chest and you hold on and you do the same thing before and after and it's a lot bigger. And then the upper part of the chest, same thing. I said in six months when you think you're feeling so good and you're doing so well, you don't need to come back. Have me do that again. One of those three areas will be better. The other two still not yet. So like yours in here works pretty well, but up here not yet. And that fits with the curve in your chest. That curve in your neck goes down at least to here.

02:19:49

Okay, so it's like see now watch this take it take notice the upper part of your chest and take a deep breath All right, so we could see not really moving well now just about an inch Maybe less turn your body leave your pelvis where it is, but turn your shoulders to the right, right? Yeah, leave it there and take a deep breath see how much deeper that is in the top. We could see it moving now a little bit Yes, yeah now turn left. Sorry, just in the pelvis. Yeah, you now take a deep breath and

02:20:30

See, now it's worse than when you're straight. So the way your body is twisted is over to the left, and when you twist it to the right, it untwists your chest, your ribs work better, and you can breathe better. And that's compensation, right? What's compensation? The twist. In your case, I don't know if that's… Well, the twist is a compensation, but I don't know if you have something that's out of place in your body at that area that's making that twist.

02:21:03

right you know people people jump to conclusions all right and and they get frustrated with me because when i don't know something i say i don't know yeah yeah sure well i'm just saying that the twist you said the twist is always a compensation right because ultimately it's the bones out of place well the twist could be there because of something that's not a compensation see you you if if you have a vertebra that's stuck forward to the right to the left

02:21:29

It could be pushing your body that way. And if somebody fixes it, immediately your body will straighten out. So that's not a compensation. That's part of the pattern. Oh, that's the distinction. Okay. You can have things pushed out of place as part of the pattern that are not directly compensating, but it's part of the pattern and it's there because of the pattern. Because the bone is not just forward, but it is also twisted. Yeah. Yeah. It's like people with a knee problem.

02:21:58

Knees are no problem. It's just two big bones that go like this. But if you twist it up on top or your foot's out of place and it's twisted on the bottom, it's going to rub and it's going to cause problems in your knee. We have all these degenerative arthritis things and everything, and they get treated with ABC and it disappears. And people are like, how can this degeneration disappear? And the answer is, if you get this cut on your arm, it'll heal.

02:22:26

Unless you keep pulling it open. You keep pulling it open all the time. It's either not going to heal. It's going to scar. It's going to be something nasty. All right. And so what happens is that arthritis and everything is things are rubbing wrong. They're not designed to rub the way they are. Okay. And so your bone reacts. You get ABC and your body's lined up. That rubbing goes away. And when the rubbing goes away, your body can heal. Okay.

02:22:53

We have discs. We have MRIs with discs that are gone. It's pretty funny. If you go to the ABC Europe website,

02:23:02

practitioner website there's a guy Giuseppe Terulli in Italy who's an osteopath who does ABC and he had a guy who had a disc problem and he told him if you stick with this for a year the disc will be gone and everybody told this guy that Giuseppe was trying to cheat him and everything else and he's Italian he got a little worked up so after a year they did another MRI and the disc is like gone the protrusion it's gone

02:23:32

And he's got a tirade in Italian that goes this long about, you no good, you said I was a… It's pretty funny. Do you want to tell them about David Chiedesny? Uh…

02:23:47

Oh, my wife is – in my course, there's a picture. There's an x-ray picture of a guy with a big degenerative knee thing. And then this guy, Dave Cheatham, who I told you his people – yeah.

02:24:03

He told the guy, it's a whole story with it, but he told the guy, give me a year. It was bone on bone. Yeah, it was bone on bone. And so the orthopedist, he said, give me a year before we do the surgery. And the orthopedist said, it's your knee. They come back a year later, the orthopedist does x-rays, and the cartilage is regenerated, and it looks like a normal knee. And the orthopedist said, I don't know what you're doing, but keep doing it. It works fine.

02:24:32

And this happens on a very regular basis, and it happens whether x-rays are being taken or not. It's happening with people all the time. Let me ask you this. For anyone with chronic pain conditions, do you think it's ever a good idea for them to have surgery for like a bulging disc or whatever? Or is it ever necessary, let's say? Well, yeah. You can have a disc bulge in a place. I just actually had a call the other day from somebody. They had sent me an MRI as part of a consultation.

02:25:01

And the disc was bulged out into what we call the intervertebral foramen. They call it the IVF. So between the two vertebrae, the way it goes is it makes a hole, all right? That's a foramen as a whole where the nerve comes out. And the way this guy had a disc bulge, it was bulging right into that.

02:25:22

And I said, look, you can fix this guy's structure perfectly. I doubt if that disc bulge is going to go away. I said, see if they can do the type of surgery where they just go in there with the little thing that chops it up so they won't cut up everything. But, you know, that you're not going to fix. And a lot of people, I talked about the knees. If the knees all chewed up and the mechanics are too changed, you're not going to fix the knee either.

02:25:48

Okay. So it depends how far along the damage is. Depends on how far along the damage is. But actually, Ali's here and it reminds me of this woman, Stacy, who worked for us.

02:25:58

I would treat her and her knee pain would completely disappear and she'd be okay when she worked at our office. We have these chairs that are designed, if you look on our website, you see it's designed with a tilt to give you like a high heel type chair. Remember I said heels are good for anything? Anyway, she'd be fine and she'd go home and she'd come back the next day. I'd say, how's your knee? And she said, it's the same, it doesn't work.

02:26:26

And one day she had a tag sale and Allison asked me to go help her. She lived near us and I helped her and I treated her a little bit. I said, how's your knee now? She said, fine. And she was outside on her feet all day doing the tag sale stuff. And it ended and I came back to help her clean up a little stuff. And I said, how's your knee now? She said, what do you mean? I said, how's your knee? She said, fine.

02:26:56

I said, okay, so you didn't sit down all day. I'm telling you, it's that chair you have in your house. It's setting your body off and twisting your knee. She sort of looked at me like, next day she comes into work. How's your knee? Oh, it hurts. I woke up. It was hurting. I said, you sit in that chair last night? She goes, yeah, but I don't think that's it. I was like, what is it, magic? So you have all these things that are happening.

02:27:23

Amazing. Right, I'm aware of time, but that's been an incredible journey. We've learned a lot. I do highly recommend people, at the very least, learn that first red maneuver because it is 100% free, as you just said. You can do it on your family, on your friends. It's pretty simple. Is there any chance someone can injure someone by doing that, like for anyone who's a bit worried about it? If your aim is so bad and you punch them in the face…

02:27:51

You can hurt somebody, but your aim isn't that bad. A lot of people hit too low, which gets the second rib out of place and causes a little bit of problem because they're worried about hitting the throat. But you can hit in the throat and it's not going to bother you much at all, maybe a little bit, but that's it. But just on the hard thing, one quick thing. So when you see – here's a demonstration. Take a deep breath now and notice the top of your chest and let it out.

02:28:21

Now put your fingers on the collarbone, right, with those big lumps, and put it down here and push that up and back. All right, one on each side. You can use two hands if you want. Up and back. Push that up and back. All right. And now while you're pushing that, take a deep breath. Yeah, so you can see your chest is coming out. You feel how much better it moves? I feel more movement at the top of the chest, yeah. Yeah, now take your hand away, and now take a deep breath.

02:28:55

See, now it feels you can't move it, and then you can feel the difference there, right? Yeah. If you didn't have that big twist when he does the first rib maneuver, that would stay in a better position. Because you have the twist, it tends to pull that forward. But you notice how much better you breathed when you had that there? Yeah. Keep in mind your heart's in here too. And so your heart's compressed with your chest collapsed, all right? It's probably pumping fine, but it's compressed. You do the first rib maneuver on somebody…

02:29:24

and it'll open up their chest enough so that their heart will be pumping more blood per beat, and they'll usually notice a facial flush or something like that. So if you put numbers to things, you can see relationships that you wouldn't otherwise think of, but an ounce of blood is like two tablespoons, all right? A tablespoon and a half, two tablespoons, maybe two and a half. So that's not too much liquid, right?

02:29:53

Well, when you do the first rib maneuver, the chest shape changes and most people are pumping at least one more ounce per beat. And you might not think about that, but you only have five quarts of blood in your body. All right. So a quart is 32 ounces is five times that is 160 ounces. So if your heart's beating 72 beats per minute and all of a sudden your chest pops up and you can now beat one more ounce of blood or you can pump one more ounce of blood with each beat.

02:30:25

That's 72 ounces per minute, 144 ounces in two minutes. So every two and a half, two and a quarter minutes, your entire blood volume is circulating one extra time. And you're breathing that much better. So these are not small, insignificant changes. And when you're getting ABC, we're fixing a lot more than just your back. Right.

02:30:51

Awesome. So if people want to find a practitioner, as we said, go to the website that you said, and then if they are in a different location, they'll find a link to those other locations. Is that correct? You can search Advanced Biostructural Correction Europe, and there's a European website which has the certified practitioners. You said there's an Australian one, Asian one? There's an Australian one. Oh, Ali's telling me we have links to those on our website too. You do, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

02:31:19

Excellent. I don't know if we have, do we have the China people listed? I don't think we do yet. All right. I don't know how many Chinese people are listening to your, your thing, but not many. No, uh, it's mainly going to be English speaking countries, but Australia, we do have a bunch of Australians. So it's good to know you got that as well. Um, you mentioned about an affiliate program, uh, in the email, you mentioned about an affiliate program in your email. Is there a coupon code by any chance? Is there a coop? Uh, you know what?

02:31:44

we're going to make a coupon that says Elwynn. Right. And if they put that in there, they can save $100 on the course.

02:31:54

Great. Awesome. All right. So use code Elwynn for $100 off if you're interested in learning about it. And even if you don't want to spend any money, you can at the very least learn to do the first river maneuver. Check out Jesse's work on YouTube and his website and try that towel thing.

02:32:14

And if you sleep a hell of a lot better, we talk about this a lot. Like, you know, they're talking about a lot in the mainstream more and more now. If you sleep well every night, that has a massive impact on your health, on your hormones. For the guys listening, you have better testosterone, all of this kind of stuff. So, yeah,

02:32:31

uh these things if they work that jesse's recommending that are completely free will have a massive impact so definitely worth a try thank you so much for joining us jesse you're welcome and you know the the they have a list of the benefits of good posture the list is like this long you you get the first rib maneuver your shoulders pop up you get that for free and you get all those benefits too thank you very much for having me

Edit:2025.04.04

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