第 65 集：再次审视亚甲蓝
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罗恩：
欢迎大家收看真实健康播客。我是罗恩 Ron Hunninghake 医生，我是 Riordan 诊所的首席医疗官。
托马斯·利维 Thomas Levy 博士是氧化还原医学领域最重要的专家之一。今天我们要再次谈论亚甲蓝，三个月前，我们做了关于亚甲蓝的节目，亚甲蓝的抗氧化能力。从那时起，已有 2,589 次观看，超过 392 条评论，利维博士，那个节目引起了不小的轰动，是怎么回事？为什么人们对亚甲蓝如此感兴趣，我们可以做些什么来告诉观众更多信息？听起来观众真的对亚甲蓝能做什么感兴趣。
利维：
可能是因为是亚甲蓝，可以说是一种染料，是有点奇怪，一开始就有点引起注意，这染料是怎么回事？这很有用。当然，当你了解表面并深入其实质之后，你会意识到这只是一种令人难以置信的动态疗法。正如我们所讨论的，并非所有抗氧化剂都具有这种特性。我可能会补充一点，亚甲蓝不是抗氧化剂，但亚甲蓝在很多方面与VC 在体内的活性及作用以及对细胞内氧化应激和氧化生物分子增加的影响相似，
罗恩：
亚甲蓝被视为一种益智药，可以帮助大脑、改善情绪、提高能量、增强认知功能、增强幸福感。它是安全的。正如您提到的，它是一种非常强大的抗氧化剂，并且似乎在中枢神经系统中发挥着很大的作用。那么，它与VC 有何不同，使其在认知功能方面如此有用呢？
利维：
嗯，正如我们刚才提到的，它是一种强大的抗氧化剂。一般来说，对于任何想要获得有效临床结果的病症，您都希望有一种传递方式，无论是VC 还是其他任何东西，都能在相关组织中发挥非常强大的抗氧化作用。因此，考虑到这一点，事实证明亚甲基蓝具有脂溶性特性。它具有水溶性的特性。它的分子并不是那么大，而且它很快就会被全身的细胞吸收。一些文献称，给药后仅一小时，它在中枢神经系统内的浓度就比身体其他部位高出 100 倍。所以它真的很喜欢中枢神经系统。早期它被一些使用它的人发现了，
诺贝尔奖获得者保罗·埃利希博士说，哇，有些抑郁症患者在服用亚甲蓝后，抑郁症才开始消失。
托马斯·利维博士：现在请注意，他们并没有直接告诉人们他们做了很多动物研究，然后他们才想到做一些像给予染料作为某种治疗剂这样疯狂的事情。但由于两件事，染料部分在许多不同的应用中也很有用。正如我所说，它吸收得很好。第二，染料可以追踪物体。因此，当外科医生长时间使用它并准确显示癌症和其他过程渗透的位置时，因为他们在该区域放了一点亚甲蓝，它会立即沿着淋巴管和其他细胞外区域的轨迹被吸收。因此，它使外科医生能够很好地准确界定疾病的位置——肿瘤，无论他们想要切除什么。但事实证明，我们可以稍微讨论一下，亚甲蓝最重要的一个特性可能是它可以使线粒体恢复活力。如果你让大脑中的线粒体恢复活力，奇迹就会开始发生。患有被认为不可逆转的神经系统疾病的人并不是不可逆转的。事实证明，当使用传统的治疗方法来治疗它们时，它们是不可逆转的。
利维：当然，如果您所做的只是集中精力抑制或最小化症状，而在主要治疗中完全没有采取任何措施来阻止持续的新损害并逆转您正在观察的任何过程的旧损害，许多疾病将被视为无法治愈。但是当你开始了解病理学，了解你提到的氧化还原生物学的重要性时，我们最终开始得到还原，这是氧化还原的电子侧充满电子，在细胞内部比耗尽电子更突出氧化的细胞。当还原生物分子开始多于氧化生物分子时，令人难以置信的事情就会开始发生。
罗恩：
我想如果我在这里花点时间向观众解释一下我如何制作自己的亚甲基蓝溶液，因为很多评论是，“现在，你如何制作这个东西？最好的服用方法是什么？” 有很多不同的方法，但我认为这种特殊的方法阐明了你刚才所说的，如果你想给自己制作亚甲基蓝饮料，你会做什么？我所做的就是取一些温水，更温暖的热水，然后将抗坏血酸放入水中，大约半茶匙，然后我将使用可以从互联网上获得的医药级亚甲蓝滴剂，然后我滴入20滴，即10毫克亚甲蓝。有趣的是，当它滴进去时，它是深墨蓝色的，所以你必须小心处理亚甲基蓝，因为它真的会弄脏东西。它是黑色的，呈墨色，但它开始与维生素C水发生反应，变成无色亚甲蓝，这是一种非常浅的蓝色或绿松石色。看到颜色指标发生的变化是很有趣的。现在，
利维博士，为什么拥有一个额外电子的亚甲蓝如此重要？这对帮助细胞（尤其是大脑细胞）更好地发挥作用有什么作用？
利维：
嗯，它有双重作用。在还原过程中，它氧化了该溶液中的一些抗坏血酸，这意味着部分抗坏血酸现在是 DHAA 脱氢抗坏血酸，结果只是偶然，科学，无论如何，抗坏血酸直接非常差，如果按原样被大脑吸收的话。相反，它是氧化形式的 DHAA，它可以快速穿过血脑屏障并使用谷胱甘肽转运蛋白，这与用于葡萄糖的转运蛋白相同。胰岛素以同样的方式促进它进入细胞内。这样就可以让更多的VC 更容易被大脑吸收。
利维：
现在，说了这么多，你仍然拥有这一点，这是我最近才真正意识到的，但我认为这非常重要。我的意思是，我整个职业生涯，或者至少过去 30 年，一直关注这样一个事实：VC 是一种强大的抗氧化剂，因为它可以提供电子。但事实并非如此，这就是它成为强大抗氧化剂的原因。很多很多很多的分子会捐出一个电子，但它们不参与快速的来回，放弃一个电子，拿走一个电子，放出一个电子，拿走一个电子。就VC 而言，这就是为什么你以还原形式还是氧化形式服用它并不那么重要，重要的是要继续扩大体内VC 和其他抗氧化剂分子的基质，以便系统中已有的电子具有良好的功能，并且可以轻松地分布在整个细胞质和整个细胞器中。因为，从字面上看，电子是否到达它们需要去的地方、数量和时间不足决定了健康。
利维：
顺便提一下我们过去已经讨论过的事情，但重要的是要意识到当电子流动时，这称为电流。好的？因此，如果您有足够的抗氧化剂（例如VC），它不仅会提供电子，而且会在被氧化后迅速收回电子，这实际上会产生电子流，为您提供微电流并在细胞内产生电压。文献中的许多文章清楚地表明，一定程度的电流和一定程度的电压是细胞是否健康的明确标志。广告：这次谈话还有很多内容，在短暂休息后就会出现。今天的真实健康播客由 Riordan Clinic Nutrient Store 为您带来。营养品商店是您获取最高品质营养补充剂的资源。店里的每种补充剂均由 Riordan Clinic 的专业医务人员精心挑选，为您提供最佳的质量、纯度、一致性和有效的剂量。请访问 store.riordanclinic.org 在线购物。
罗恩：
基本上，当人们以这种方式服用亚甲蓝时，就会促进它进入中枢神经系统。我看到了一个令人震惊、惊人的统计数据。我曾经告诉人们，一个神经元包含大约 100,000 个线粒体——一个神经元。新的想法是它有 1 到 200 万个线粒体。因此，如果你能通过VC 和亚甲蓝将电子输送到你的中枢神经系统，这将有助于缓解某些时候对我来说就像电池没电综合症的感觉，那些日子我的大脑无法正常工作。但这是让它恢复活力的好方法。现在有针对阿尔茨海默氏症和其他帕金森氏症以及其他中枢神经系统疾病的研究对这种疗法有反应，尽管它在传统思维中并不是一种众所周知的疗法。
利维：
他们有一个叫做 ORAC 值的东西，它基本上是抗氧化剂释放电子的速度和完全程度，但它根本不能衡量它收回电子的容易程度，这就是为什么你有一些这些抗氧化剂、老虾青素和其他非常强大的物质，但它们无法到达你想要它们进入体内的地方。因此，拥有这种权力以及分配的能力非常重要。亚甲蓝的独特之处在于它超越了VC。对于像我这样的人来说，说亚甲蓝超越VC 的作用几乎是一种诽谤，因为它不仅能迅速被细胞内吸收，而且还能迅速被吸收。特别是在线粒体内。所以它选择性地积累在线粒体内。现在，它在那里时会做什么？好吧，无论它是还原形式还是氧化形式，当它最终到达那里时，无论哪种方式，如果它是还原形式，都会发生这种情况。它绕过了整个电子链转移系列的复合物，并将电子捐赠给最后一个复合物，从而允许产生为 ATP 合酶泵提供燃料的质子，并且您可以在没有前面所有物质的情况下产生大量 ATP。
利维：
为什么这很重要？嗯，在穿过整个电子传输链时，你不仅试图让电子到达它需要的最终位置，而且在这个过程中会产生更多的氧化应激。这就是导致线粒体功能障碍的主要原因，因为速度变慢了。相对于产生的能量而言，你开始产生过多的氧化应激，然后这是一个恶性循环，事情会减慢并关闭亚甲蓝，直接到达终点，让你在不产生 ATP 的情况下制造 ATP。氧化应激。另一方面，当亚甲蓝进入氧化态时，它会进入第一个复合物，其中含有大量 NADH。而NADH反而会直接给出电子和亚甲蓝，然后它会到达火车的另一端，执行我刚才提到的相同操作并生成 ATP。因此，即使根本不需要或不必了解生物化学，简而言之，亚甲蓝也会产生线粒体，而线粒体是细胞的动力源，这意味着您身体的动力源使线粒体在产生能量方面更加高效，在生产能量方面也更加高效。在产生能量的过程中产生较少的氧化应激。
罗恩：
这非常酷。对于我们的普通观众，就剂量而言，我们有很多关于剂量的问题和评论。嗯，首先，使用亚甲蓝有什么禁忌症吗？理论上抗抑郁药不是一个问题吗？在这种情况下，你可能必须从很低的剂量开始。
利维：
嗯，他们谈论的是服用 SSRI 抗抑郁药的人。即便如此，亚甲基蓝会给您带来问题似乎也并非不可避免。只是在这种情况下，您可能应该与一位有意识的综合医生合作，并且可能从低剂量开始，同时逐渐减少其中一些药物的用量。但当然，如果您服用 SSRI，您不应该直接服用大量亚甲蓝，因为这可能会导致严重问题。
罗恩：
是的，现在有很多精神科医生，
哈佛大学精神病学家克里斯托弗·普卢默博士写了一本名为《大脑能量》的书，他在书中断言，也许你所有的精神疾病都可能与新陈代谢有关，即缺乏能量。这就是亚甲蓝故事的用武之地。我认为，人们可以很容易地从五滴或十滴开始，制成VC 溶液，而且它必须是抗坏血酸。如果使用抗坏血酸钠，则无法为亚甲基蓝提供电子供体，因此它必须是抗坏血酸。四分之一到半茶匙在一些温水中，与亚甲蓝一起搅拌，然后就可以喝了，而且不会染色你的舌头，而且耐受性很好。你会说什么，一天一次还是两次？我不知道半衰期是多少。
利维：
半衰期很重要。我认为你不需要每天服用超过一次，除非你正在治疗某种疾病，或者正在应对感染。我们过去曾讨论过亚甲蓝作为单一疗法的效果如何令人惊讶，甚至在编码并带回后，也可以通过呼吸机和所有血管加压药使人们摆脱新冠肺炎晚期感染性休克。因此，如果您正在治疗早期阶段或感冒或流感或类似的疾病，那么您需要考虑每天服用几次。一般来说，我必须强调一下，剂量范围是每公斤体重 0.5 毫克到每公斤体重 2 毫克。现在，这意味着什么？好吧，如果你是 150 磅的人，那是 70 公斤，所以每公斤 2 毫克，也就是 300 毫克。这将是你的最高剂量。
托马斯·利维博士：虽然你的剂量很低，但你并没有真正感觉不舒服，你只是想保持一切正常运转，那么你可能想要服用 5 毫克、10 毫克或 15 毫克，即 10 到 15 毫克。 20滴亚甲蓝。所以所有这些都决定了你之后的发展方向。然后，就像其他一切一样，人们就像对待VC 一样，形成了自己的健康直觉。他们注意到很多人，就像维生素C一样，在服用一点亚甲蓝后，他们感觉好多了，但他们知道什么时候感觉好些，他们知道什么时候感觉好些。那不在那里。因此人们可以根据自己的感受进行调整。但基本上，如果你不疯狂服用剂量，不超过 100、150、200 毫克，尤其是当你正在处理感染时，毒性非常非常小。它已经存在很长时间了
罗恩：
我想已经有 100 多年了。因此，尝试与知识渊博的人建立关系总是一个好主意。我的评论之一是有人向他们的肾脏科医生提到了这一点，他说：“这太疯狂了。” 太疯狂了。好吧，如果你对此一无所知，这听起来肯定有点疯狂，但如果你使用小剂量逐渐进行工作，并且了解罗马不是一天建成的事实，并且如果你早点阶段或中期，短时间内不会让你好起来。我认为，将会有一个需要继续进行的治疗过程，并且应该与补充剂和功能性医学领域知识渊博的人进行协调。但不管怎么说，
Levy 博士，这很有趣，我认为故事还没有结束。
罗恩：
我认为更多的人会想更多地了解它，因为在某种程度上它强调了您多年来一直在说的抗氧化剂仍然发挥着至关重要的作用，一直发挥着至关重要的作用不仅恢复健康，而且保持最佳健康状态。因此，我要再次感谢您这些年来所做的工作，以及您仍在撰写的书籍中所做的工作，以及您在人们寻找出路时给予他们的希望来应对他们的慢性疾病。太感谢了。
托马斯·利维博士：好的，谢谢
罗恩博士。我很感激，先生。
罗恩：
好的，我们稍后会回来。大家保重。结束语：感谢您收听真实健康播客。如果您喜欢本集，请务必订阅并给我们留下评论。您还可以通过@realhealthpodcast.org 找到所有剧集和节目说明。另外，请务必访问 RiordanClinic.org，在那里您可以找到数百个视频和文章，帮助您创建自己的 Real Health 版本。
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq7MWWPfSTY
Episode#65: A Second Look at Methylene Blue
Disclaimer: The information contained on the Real Health Podcast and the resources mentioned are for educational purposes only. They're not intended as and shall not be understood or construed as medical or health advice. The information contained on this podcast is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation. Information provided by hosts and guests on the Real Health Podcast or the use of any products or services mentioned does not create a practitioner patient relationship between you and any persons affiliated with this podcast. Intro: This is the Real Health Podcast brought to you by Reardon Clinic. Our mission is to bring you the latest information and top experts in functional and integrative medicine to help you make informed decisions on your path to real health.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Real Health Podcast. This is
Dr. Ron Hunninghake, and I'm your Chief Medical Officer here at the Riordan Clinic, and we are excited to, once again, welcome back
Dr. Thomas Levy, who is one of the foremost experts in redox medicine. And today we're going to be talking about methylene blue again, because three months ago, we did a show on methylene blue, the antioxidant power of methylene blue. And since that time there have been 2,589 views with over 392 comments made. So,
Dr. Levy, I think we created quite a stir there. What's the deal? Why is there so much interest in methylene blue, and what can we do to tell the audience more? Because it sounds like they're really interested in what this can do for them.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Well, I think it's probably because it's methylene blue, a dye, which is kind of quirky if you will, at the outset and sort of immediately begs for a little attention how is it that some sort of dye is something that's useful. And then of course, after you get above the surface there and get into the substance of it, you realize it's just an incredibly dynamic therapy. And as we've discussed, and not all antioxidants have this property. I might add an antioxidant is not an antioxidant, it's not an antioxidant, but methylene blue in many ways parallels the activities of vitamin C in the body and what it does and the effects that it has on increased oxidative stress inside cells and oxidized biomolecules, and along with some unique and increased activity over vitamin C when it comes to problems with the central nervous system.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: Let me just read here. It's been looked upon as a nootropic, which that is something that helps the brain, improved mood, improved energy, enhanced cognitive function, a greater sense of wellbeing. It's safe. And as you mentioned, it's a very powerful antioxidant, and it seems to work a lot in the central nervous system. So what is it that makes it different from vitamin C that makes it so useful in terms of cognitive functions?
Dr. Thomas Levy: Well, as we just mentioned, it is a powerful antioxidant. And generally speaking, for any condition that you want to get effective clinical outcomes, you want to have a way of delivery, whether it's vitamin C or anything else, a very powerful antioxidant effect in the tissue that's involved. So with that in mind, it turns out that methylene blue has fat-soluble characteristics. It has water-soluble characteristics. It's not that large a molecule, and it very, very rapidly gets taken up into the cells throughout the body. And some of the literature says that it gets up to 100-fold more concentrated inside the central nervous system than the rest of the body, only an hour after administration. So it really likes the central nervous system. And early on it was discovered by a number of people who worked with it, including
Dr. Paul Ehrlich, a Nobel Prize winner was that, wow, some people who were depressed just started losing their depression after they took methylene blue.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Now mind you, they didn't go straight to giving people that they did a lot of animal research before it ever occurred to them to do something as crazy as give a dye as some sort of therapeutic agent. But the dye part is also beneficial in a lot of different applications because of two things. As I said, it's well absorbed. And number two, the dye tracks things. So when surgeons have used it for a long time and showing exactly where cancers and other processes have infiltrated because they put a little methylene blue on the area, and it immediately gets taken up along the tracks of lymphatic vessels and other extracellular areas. So it allows surgeons to very well demarcate exactly where a condition – tumor, whatever is that they want to cut out. But as it turns out, and we can go this in a little bit, probably the single most important characteristic of methylene blue is that it rejuvenates mitochondria. If you rejuvenate mitochondria in the brain, magic starts to happen. People with neurological disorders that are felt to be irreversible are not irreversible. It just turns out they're irreversible when traditional methods of treatment are used to treat them.
Dr. Thomas Levy: If all you do is concentrate on trying to suppress or minimize the symptom while really doing absolutely nothing in your primary therapy to stop the ongoing new damage and reverse the old damage of whatever process you're looking at, of course, many diseases will be deemed incurable. But when you begin to understand the pathology, understand the importance of what you mentioned, redox biology, where we finally start to get the reduction, which is the electron replete in the electron’s side of redox, more prominent inside of cell than the electron depleted oxidized cell. When you start to have more reduced biomolecules than oxidized biomolecules, then incredible things start to happen.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: I think if I just take a moment here and explain to the audience how I make my own methylene blue solution to take, because that was a number of the comments were, “Now, how do you make this stuff? What's the best way to take it?” And there's a lot of different ways, but I think this particular way elucidates what you just said, if you want to make yourself a methylene blue drink, what you do? What I do is take some warm water, warmer hot water, and I put ascorbic acid in the water, maybe a half of a teaspoon, and then I'll take my pharmaceutical grade methylene blue drops that are available off the internet, and I'll put 20 drops in, which is 10 milligrams of methylene blue. Interestingly enough, as it drips in, it's dark inky blue, so you have to be careful how you handle methylene blue because it can really stain stuff. It's dark and inky, but it starts to react with the vitamin C water, and it turns into leuko methylene blue, which is a kind of a very light, kind of blue or turquoise color. And it's fascinating to see the color metric change that occurs. Now,
Dr. Levy, why is that important to have a methylene blue that now owns an extra electron? What does that do to help the cell function better, especially cells in the brain?
Dr. Thomas Levy: Well, it does twofold things. In becoming reduced, it oxidized some of the ascorbic acid that was in that solution, which means part of the ascorbic acid is now DHAA dehydroascorbic acid, and it just turns out serendipity, science, whatever, that ascorbic acid straight up is very poorly, if at all taken up inside the brain as-is. Instead, it is the oxidized form, DHAA, which goes rapidly across the blood-brain barrier and uses the glute transporters, which is the same transporter that's used for glucose. It is facilitated by insulin the same way to get inside the cell. This then allows a much greater amount, percent of the vitamin C, to be readily taken into the brain.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Now, having said all of that, you still have, and this is something that I've really come to my realization fairly recently, but I think it's very important. I mean, all my professional life, or at least the last 30 years has been focused on the fact that vitamin C is a powerful antioxidant because it donates electrons. That's not so true that that's what makes it a powerful antioxidant. Many, many, many molecules will donate an electron, but they don't participate in the rapid two and fro, give up an electron, take an electron, give out an electron, take an electron. In the case of vitamin C, this is why it's not so important whether you take it ironically enough in a reduced or oxidized form, it's just important that you continue to expand the matrix of vitamin C and other antioxidant molecules in the body so that the electrons already present in the system have a great facility and being easily distributed throughout the cytoplasm and throughout the organelles. Because, literally, it's whether electrons get where they need to go, inadequate amounts and time that determine health.
Dr. Thomas Levy: And just to mention something we already talked about in the past, but it's important to realize is when electrons flow, that's called current. Okay? So if you have enough antioxidants like vitamin C that not only will donate electron but will rapidly take the electron back when it's, after it's been oxidized, this actually generates a flow of electrons, gives you microcurrents and generates voltage potentials across a cell. And there's many articles in the literature that clearly show that certain degrees of current and certain degrees of voltage are clear markers of whether a cell is healthy or not. Advertisement: There's a lot more to this conversation, and it's coming up right after a quick break. Today's episode of the Real Health Podcast is brought to you by the Riordan Clinic Nutrient Store. The nutrient store is your resource for the highest quality nutritional supplements. Every supplement in the store is handpicked by the expert medical staff at Riordan Clinic providing you with the best quality, purity, consistency, and effective dosing available. Visit store.riordanclinic.org to shop online.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: So basically when people would take the methylene blue in this manner, you're going to facilitate its entry into the central nervous system. And I ran into a shocking, amazing statistic. I used to tell people that a neuron contains about 100,000 mitochondria – one neuron. The new thinking is that it's anywhere from 1 to 2 million mitochondria. So if you can get electrons via vitamin C and methylene blue into your central nervous system, that's going to help what some days, to me feels like the dead battery syndrome, those days when my brain just is not working. But this is a good way to rejuvenate it. And there is research now in terms of Alzheimer's and other Parkinson's, other central nervous system diseases responding to this therapy, though it's not a well-known therapy in conventional thinking.
Dr. Thomas Levy: They have something called the ORAC value, which is basically how quickly and completely an antioxidant gives up electron, but it does not measure in any degree at all how readily it takes it back, which is why you have some of these antioxidants, old astaxanthin and other that are so powerful, but they don't get where you want 'em to get in the body. So it's important that you have that power plus the ability to be distributed. And the one really super thing that makes methylene blue unique above and beyond vitamin C. It's almost slander for somebody like me to say that right above and beyond what vitamin C can do is that it rapidly gets taken up not only inside the cells, but specifically inside the mitochondria. So it's selectively accumulates inside the mitochondria. Now, what does it do when it's there? Well, whether it's in its reduced form or it's oxidized form, when it finally gets there, either way, this is what happens if it's in its reduced form. It bypasses the entire electron chain transfer series of complexes and donates the electron to the final one that allows the development of protons that fuel the A T P synthase pump, and you make a lot of ATP without all the stuff ahead of it.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Why is that significant? Well, in going through the entire electron transport chain, not only are you trying to get that electron down to that final spot where it needs to be, you're generating more oxidative stress in the process. And this is what pretty much causes mitochondrial dysfunction is things slow down. You start to generate too much oxidative stress relative to the amount of energy that you generate, and then it's a vicious cycle and things slow down and shut down the methylene blue goes straight to the end of it and allows you to make ATP without generating the oxidative stress. On the other hand, when methylene blue comes into the oxidized state, it goes to the first complex where there's a lot of what's called NADH. And the NADH instead of will directly give the electron and methylene blue, and then it'll go to the other end of the train, do the same thing that I just mentioned and generate ATP. So even without needing or having to understand biochemistry at all, in a nutshell, methylene blue makes mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of your cells, which means that the powerhouses of your body makes mitochondria much more efficient in making energy and much more efficient in generating less oxidative stress in the process of generating that energy.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: It's pretty cool. Just for our general audience, in terms of dosage, we had a number of questions and comments about dosing. Well, first of all, are there any contraindications to using methylene blue, isn't it the antidepressants theoretically could be a problem, and you may have to start really low in that case.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Well, they talk about the people who take the SSRI antidepressants. Even then, it doesn't appear inevitable that methylene blue is going to give you problems. It's just that under those circumstances, you should probably work with an aware integrated physician and maybe start at a low dose while at the same time tapering off of some of those drugs. But certainly if you're on the SSRI, you shouldn't just straight out of the gate take a large amount of methylene blue because that could cause substantial problems.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: Yeah, and there are a number of the psychiatrists now,
Dr. Christopher Plummer has written a book called “Brain Energy” where he's making, he's a Harvard psychiatrist researcher making the assertion that maybe all of your mental illnesses may turn out to be metabolic, namely lack of energy. And this is where the methylene blue story comes in. So people could easily, I would think, start with maybe five or 10 drops and make the vitamin C solution, and it has to be ascorbic acid. If you use sodium ascorbate, you're not going to get the electron donor to the methylene blue, so it has to be ascorbic acid. Quarter to a half a teaspoon in some warm water, stir it up with the methylene blue, and then you can drink it, and it doesn't dye your tongue, and it's very well tolerated. What would you say, once or twice a day? I don't know what the half-life is.
Dr. Thomas Levy: The half-life is significant. I don't think you need to dose it more than once a day, unless you're treating a condition, you're dealing with an infection. We talked about in the past how effective methylene blue was amazingly as a monotherapy and bringing people out of advanced septic shock with covid on the ventilator with all vasopressors, and even after having coded and brought back. So if you're dealing with an earlier stage or cold or flu or something along those lines, then you want consider dosing it several times a day. The dosage range, generally speaking, and I got to emphasize generally, okay, is something along the lines of 0.5 milligram per kilogram body weight up to maybe two milligrams per kilogram body weight. Now, what does that translate to? Well, if you're 150 pound person, that's 70 kilograms, so two milligram per kilogram, that's 300 milligrams. That would be your top dose.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Whereas you're low dose, you're not really feeling poorly, you just want to keep things running, well, then you might want to go with the five or 10 or 15 milligrams, which would be 10 to 20 drops of the methylene blue. So all of that determines how you go after that. And then like everything else, people, just like they do with vitamin C, they develop their own health intuition. They notice many people, just like with vitamin C, after they take a little methylene blue, they feel better in a way that they can't quite put their finger on, but they know when they're feeling better, and they know when that's not there. And so people just are able to adjust it based on how they feel. But basically, if you don't go crazy on the dosage and don't exceed a 100, 150, 200 milligrams, especially if you're dealing with an infection, there's very, very little toxicity. It's been around a long time
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: Since I think over 100 years. So it's always a good idea to try to develop a relationship with a knowledgeable person. I have one of the comments was the person mentioned it to their nephrologist and he says, “that's crazy.” That's crazy. Well, if you don't know anything about it, it sure would sound kind of crazy, but if you use small doses working up gradually and also understanding the fact that Rome is not built in a day, and if you've got early stage or mid stage, it's not going to make you well in a short period of time. There's going to be a process of healing that needs to go on and should be coordinated, I think, with someone knowledgeable in the field of supplements and functional type medicine. But anyway,
Dr. Levy, this is fascinating and I think this is not the end of the story.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: I think more people are going to want to know more about it, because in a way it highlights what you've been saying for so many years is that antioxidants still play a crucial role, have always played a crucial role in not only regaining health, but maintaining optimal health. And so once again, I want to thank you for the work you've done for all these years and the work you're still doing with the books you're writing and the hope you're giving to people as they look for ways to deal with their chronic illness. Thank you so much.
Dr. Thomas Levy: Well, thank you
Dr. Ron. I appreciate that, sir.
Dr. Ron Hunninghake: Alright, we'll be back sometime in the future. Everyone, take care. Outro: Thank you for listening to the Real Health Podcast. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. You can also find all of the episodes and show notes [email protected]. Also, be sure to visit RiordanClinic.org where you will find hundreds of videos and articles to help you create your own version of Real Health.